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Post by scuzz on Apr 16, 2014 11:23:35 GMT -5
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Post by gatordynasty on Apr 16, 2014 11:29:52 GMT -5
Ah man, Potbelly's is the picture on the front of the story. Brings back a lot of memories. Didn't realize this is where the whole thing started.
Don't really have a strong opinion on if he did it or not, though I lean towards no, but I would say the investigation was not very well done and unfortunately brings up many more questions. Sad, because either the guy is being unfairly accused and will be tagged with this for a while, or a poor young women was raped and keeps getting slapped in the face with how she was treated and how successful her attacker was. Awful situation all around.
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Post by scuzz on Apr 16, 2014 11:34:05 GMT -5
The story is really harder on the police investigation but in doing that it makes Winston look guilty. Also the article does favor the accusers account, but in doing so brings up things the cops failed to do.
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Post by gatordynasty on Apr 16, 2014 11:40:44 GMT -5
The story is really harder on the police investigation but in doing that it makes Winston look guilty. Also the article does favor the accusers account, but in doing so brings up things the cops failed to do. True. We have just seen so many examples of false rape accusations against athletes, that I take these stories with a grain of salt. That said, after the Darren Sharper situation, I don't put anything past anyone. You would think being a famous athlete would kind of prevent you from ever needing to force yourself on someone, but maybe the entitlement makes these guys think they can do whatever they want. I hope this isn't true, but if it is, I hope they get to the bottom of it and absolutely hammer anyone who was involved in it and either covering up or not doing due diligence.
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Post by Wolferuns on Apr 16, 2014 13:44:33 GMT -5
"A month before the rape accusation became public, the university’s victim advocate learned that a second woman had sought counseling after a sexual encounter with Mr. Winston, according to the prosecutor’s office. The woman did not call it rape — she did not say "no." But the encounter, not previously reported, "was of such a nature that she felt violated or felt that she needed to seek some type of counseling for her emotions about the experience," according to Georgia Cappleman, the chief assistant state attorney, who said she had spoken with the advocate but not with the woman."
Duck Tape, turning"No, No, NO" into "MMMMMM, MMMMMMMMM, MMMMMMM" for almost 100 years.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 14:14:50 GMT -5
I am avoiding this thread like the plague after I post an observatory piece; (that most won't bother to read unless I bold sections ... which I won't do) I didn't write this, but it echoes my sentiments.
NYT on Jameis Winston, FSU, TPD investigation By Bud Elliott @sbnrecruiting on Apr 16 2014, 7:52a 168 I've read through the article this morning and am surprised, given the amount of hype that the article was receiving around town, that it contains no new bombshell facts or allegations about the investigation. There are some new facts about some peripheral issues and the Tallahassee Police Department's handling of unrelated cases. It's well done, and long, but from an author who has received multiple Pulitzer Prizes, I was expecting more fruits from his investigative journalism. It is almost exclusively a rehash of facts with comments from interested parties connected to the accuser. The most interesting detail I could find was that a different woman sought counseling after a sexual encounter with Jameis Winston, but did not call the event a rape, and she did not say "no." "A month before the rape accusation became public, the university’s victim advocate learned that a second woman had sought counseling after a sexual encounter with Mr. Winston, according to the prosecutor’s office. The woman did not call it rape — she did not say "no." But the encounter, not previously reported, "was of such a nature that she felt violated or felt that she needed to seek some type of counseling for her emotions about the experience," according to Georgia Cappleman, the chief assistant state attorney, who said she had spoken with the advocate but not with the woman." Though that account and opinion is third- or fourth-hand, at best, it is concerning and potentially damaging to Winston's reputation. This piece will get the New York Times a lot of clicks from people who have not followed the case, and reading it without context, including: statements from the school, from Winston's previous legal team, from the police that the accuser gave several different, inconsistent accounts in multiple interviews with police That Greg Dent, a player of more notoriety at the time of his alleged incident than Winston was at the time of his, was arrested and is being tried for rape without any suggestion of police impropriety or favoritism that a second semen sample was also found that the accuser cut off contact with and declined to cooperate with police (USA Today, November 27) that her blood sample was tested three times for drugs, including once by an FBI lab, and none were found that Travis Johnson, referenced but not by name in the final paragraphs, was acquitted in 30 minutes by an all-female jury in a case many believe should never have been prosecuted, etc., [The article] certainly paints an even uglier picture than what already hangs on the wall of public opinion. I encourage you to read it, however, because you may not have followed the investigation as closely as I have, since my job is covering Florida State. The entity that comes out with the most egg on its face is certainly the TPD, as the author discusses some of their work in other cases. For FSU and Winston, the hit is one of image and reputation, and apparently nothing more, unless the NYT has something it is holding back for a later piece. Others who have closely followed or covered the case are singing a similar tune, including the Sports Editor of the Tallahassee Democrat: Link to article, observations hereHe raped her..... he also got freaky and pretty much raped another girl/started consenual and ended needing counselling..... And all your footbotes mean dick: 1. statements from the school, from Winston's previous legal team, from the police:
you mean, from the accused, the accused protector/profiter, and the people who screwed up the investigation? 2. that the accuser gave several different, inconsistent accounts in multiple interviews with police I gave a statment once.... and then i remember other things, and changed it once in an investigation..... espically if she was somehow impaired... or threatened, or affraid.... 3. That Greg Dent, a player of more notoriety at the time of his alleged incident than Winston was at the time of his, was arrested and is being tried for rape without any suggestion of police impropriety or favoritism Was he the future QB? Was there more evidence? was it more public? was there a beaten women with pics and videos that were harder to get rid of than "i upgraded my cell phone" claims? 4. that a second semen sample was also found gang rape...... or here is one... if i screw my wife, and then she gets raped, they might find mine too.... does it mean i "raped her"? ofcourse the "her blood screen for drugs was clean" thing coming in a minute, which is amazing they can test for all drugs, and all drugs go through all people the same, and all people's body works the same with different levels of alchol and it traces the same way in all people...... i hope the sarcasim is thick enough.... 5. that the accuser cut off contact with and declined to cooperate with police (USA Today, November 27) All rape victims are proud to be raped victiums.... They often love telling the story over and over... espcally to peopel who don't want to here it or tell pressure her to not pcoceed becuase it will "be bad for her" and its a "football town"...... and she had a lawyer that spoke for her at some point after she was stable enough emotionally to proceed. 6. that her blood sample was tested three times for drugs, including once by an FBI lab, and none were found at what time frame did this occur... and what dose did she get? and again its nice that everyones body works the same with all the same drugs/alcohol. 7. hat Travis Johnson, referenced but not by name in the final paragraphs, was acquitted in 30 minutes by an all-female jury in a case many believe should never have been prosecuted, etc., because that matters. yup, all trials are the same. we should aquit all accused rapist. At the end of the day, you still have a case. A case that had an accuser, DNA, a suspect accused of inproper sexual conduct from another victim, and a whole lot of suspect moves by the TPD and profiter (FSU).
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Post by tonythegator on Apr 16, 2014 15:32:11 GMT -5
I agree with David. When it comes to this case, David IS THE MAN!
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Post by scuzz on Apr 16, 2014 15:50:38 GMT -5
It's too bad the transfer rules aren't as cut and dried for David as this case seems to be.
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Post by gatordynasty on Apr 16, 2014 15:58:57 GMT -5
Must be nice having psychic powers to be so positive about what people did in the past thousands of miles from you.
This case smells, I do not like it, and I hope they get to the bottom of it. To be assured one way or the other about what happened though is ignorant.
This would not be the first time athletes have been accused of rape as either payback or for extortion. Until we a proper investigation is done, we just don't know. We just know the police did not do a proper job, at least imo. To be so sure of so ones guilt despite only knowing what we've all read is asinine though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 17:49:10 GMT -5
If i see a plane inthe air.... i am going to say... "look a plane".....
if i see a bird in the air.... I will say "look a freaking bird"....
If i see a cloud in the air that looks like a bird or a plane, I will say "look a bird/plane"......
I am not going to say "don't look up, there is nothing the fuck there, and if you think it is, i have a report that says you are wrong, if anything its a flying tractor...."
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Post by Pirate Joe on Apr 16, 2014 18:13:05 GMT -5
Pretty much on Auburn message boards this has been a quiet subject. Not alot has been said about it and most have a innocent until guilty attitude. Many remember the Cam Newton fiasco's. Even posters on this mentioned thread are skeptical.... There is one poster that is somehow connected to Jimbo Fisher ... from his days at Auburn, through his wife... whatever. He has generally had really good info and was someone who wanted Fisher at Auburn when Malzahn was hired... he posted this yesterday. He isnt saying Winston is guilty, he saying they screwed up the investigation. TIFWIW the Jameis Winston rape case is about to blow up on F.S.U. and the Tallahassee P.D. violated the rape victim's civil rights and that the federal government is investigating the mishandling of the case. Multiple federal civil rights were violated by the t.p.d. and F.S.U. This is likely to blow up in the next 30 days because the girls mom had filed a civil rights claim with the feds and F.S.U. and they have 60 days to respond. The girls mom is not going to let this go for any reason. I am skeptical until proven guilty, but somewhere, somehow, someone is not letting this go and it keeps surfacing.
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Post by scuzz on Apr 16, 2014 18:42:51 GMT -5
If i see a plane inthe air.... i am going to say... "look a plane"..... if i see a bird in the air.... I will say "look a freaking bird".... If i see a cloud in the air that looks like a bird or a plane, I will say "look a bird/plane"...... I am not going to say "don't look up, there is nothing the fuck there, and if you think it is, i have a report that says you are wrong, if anything its a flying tractor...." it must be nice to be so sure of everything you think you know....
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Post by pittnd1 on Apr 16, 2014 19:04:18 GMT -5
If i see a plane inthe air.... i am going to say... "look a plane"..... if i see a bird in the air.... I will say "look a freaking bird".... If i see a cloud in the air that looks like a bird or a plane, I will say "look a bird/plane"...... I am not going to say "don't look up, there is nothing the fuck there, and if you think it is, i have a report that says you are wrong, if anything its a flying tractor...." Post of the year material.
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Post by gatordynasty on Apr 16, 2014 22:06:12 GMT -5
If i see a plane inthe air.... i am going to say... "look a plane"..... if i see a bird in the air.... I will say "look a freaking bird".... If i see a cloud in the air that looks like a bird or a plane, I will say "look a bird/plane"...... I am not going to say "don't look up, there is nothing the fuck there, and if you think it is, i have a report that says you are wrong, if anything its a flying tractor...." So you saw Winston raping this girl? Damn. We could have finished this months ago if you would have come forward with your eye witness account. Should I look up the Tallahassee PD number or can you find it?
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Post by pittnd1 on Apr 16, 2014 23:15:56 GMT -5
If i see a plane inthe air.... i am going to say... "look a plane"..... if i see a bird in the air.... I will say "look a freaking bird".... If i see a cloud in the air that looks like a bird or a plane, I will say "look a bird/plane"...... I am not going to say "don't look up, there is nothing the fuck there, and if you think it is, i have a report that says you are wrong, if anything its a flying tractor...." So if you see a cloud in the air that looks like a bird or a plane, shouldn't you say "look, there is a cloud that looks like a bird/plane"? Not "look a bird/plane"? Sounds like you skip more details than the folks you criticize.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 3:46:26 GMT -5
If i see a plane inthe air.... i am going to say... "look a plane"..... if i see a bird in the air.... I will say "look a freaking bird".... If i see a cloud in the air that looks like a bird or a plane, I will say "look a bird/plane"...... I am not going to say "don't look up, there is nothing the fuck there, and if you think it is, i have a report that says you are wrong, if anything its a flying tractor...." So if you see a cloud in the air that looks like a bird or a plane, shouldn't you say "look, there is a cloud that looks like a bird/plane"? Not "look a bird/plane"? Sounds like you skip more details than the folks you criticize. The looks like is implied.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 3:52:09 GMT -5
If i see a plane inthe air.... i am going to say... "look a plane"..... if i see a bird in the air.... I will say "look a freaking bird".... If i see a cloud in the air that looks like a bird or a plane, I will say "look a bird/plane"...... I am not going to say "don't look up, there is nothing the fuck there, and if you think it is, i have a report that says you are wrong, if anything its a flying tractor...." So you saw Winston raping this girl? Damn. We could have finished this months ago if you would have come forward with your eye witness account. Should I look up the Tallahassee PD number or can you find it? I figure you are just being argumentative in this... Do I know? No. But I tell you that is what a jury is for. And FTR I have bent on a jury.... And 10 mins in I had honestly written the guy off as "guilty".... And at the end I was a bigger supporter of "innocent".... But knly after the information was there... When 12 people who are not invested hear it, and decide.... And right now, wity the evidense I have been given, "guilty" is my verdict on Winston.... "Guilty" is my verdict on FSU and TPD in "tampering and colbrration"... I have that right and their might be a hell if a lot more people thinking like me than Winston supporters may want to know about.
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Post by CFF on Apr 17, 2014 6:35:43 GMT -5
If i see a plane inthe air.... i am going to say... "look a plane"..... if i see a bird in the air.... I will say "look a freaking bird".... If i see a cloud in the air that looks like a bird or a plane, I will say "look a bird/plane"...... I am not going to say "don't look up, there is nothing the fuck there, and if you think it is, i have a report that says you are wrong, if anything its a flying tractor...." So TTU is guilty of a coverup to keep Tubberville there? It takes huge balls to admit that of your own program. Congrats David!
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Post by raleighrebel on Apr 17, 2014 7:19:33 GMT -5
2 comments here are pretty shocking - one just classless against your wife and one pretty freaking classless to any human being. carry on fine board, carry on
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Post by gatordynasty on Apr 17, 2014 10:09:18 GMT -5
So you saw Winston raping this girl? Damn. We could have finished this months ago if you would have come forward with your eye witness account. Should I look up the Tallahassee PD number or can you find it? I figure you are just being argumentative in this... Do I know? No. But I tell you that is what a jury is for. And FTR I have bent on a jury.... And 10 mins in I had honestly written the guy off as "guilty".... And at the end I was a bigger supporter of "innocent"....Shouldn't this tell you not to convict a guy before seeing all the evidence then? Saying the guy should be before a jury and saying the guilty is definitively 100% guilty are completely different things. IF Winston did this, then I want him held accountable and be locked up for a long time. How in the hell can any of US know he did this though? And I'm not even saying ignore this story. Keep on it and ask for a proper investigation. There are definitely some odd things that went on. Bad police work does not mean he's guilty though, and to crucify someone before you know all the facts or see all the evidence is nothing but a lynch mob mentality and is extremely dangerous.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 11:41:53 GMT -5
If i see a plane inthe air.... i am going to say... "look a plane"..... if i see a bird in the air.... I will say "look a freaking bird".... If i see a cloud in the air that looks like a bird or a plane, I will say "look a bird/plane"...... I am not going to say "don't look up, there is nothing the fuck there, and if you think it is, i have a report that says you are wrong, if anything its a flying tractor...." So TTU is guilty of a coverup to keep Tubberville there? It takes huge balls to admit that of your own program. Congrats David! Completely different and you know it..... Let me know hiw many other coaches wife's have gotten a "speeding ticket"... The man had a heart attack. Texas tech had no offical statement on the matter other than the thoughts being with the families. Get over it. I know it's hard finding dirt on a program like TTU.... Keep trying though I find it funny.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 11:48:52 GMT -5
I figure you are just being argumentative in this... Do I know? No. But I tell you that is what a jury is for. And FTR I have bent on a jury.... And 10 mins in I had honestly written the guy off as "guilty".... And at the end I was a bigger supporter of "innocent"....Shouldn't this tell you not to convict a guy before seeing all the evidence then? Saying the guy should be before a jury and saying the guilty is definitively 100% guilty are completely different things. IF Winston did this, then I want him held accountable and be locked up for a long time. How in the hell can any of US know he did this though? And I'm not even saying ignore this story. Keep on it and ask for a proper investigation. There are definitely some odd things that went on. Bad police work does not mean he's guilty though, and to crucify someone before you know all the facts or see all the evidence is nothing but a lynch mob mentality and is extremely dangerous. No, with the proper information a person can make their own mind up.... The point being their maybe 2 million out there that feel the same as I... At this current moment, the evidense say... "Go to trial"..... That's all I want. Go to trial like this case would have done if he was not an FSU high profile future starting QB... Then if a jury finds him not guilty, them I will accept it... Just as I know a jury, even with me on it, CSN be corrected... Reading "reports" and "replies" means DICK.... Until a court setting, with penalties for lying us held, this is all blame game BS..
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Post by gatordynasty on Apr 17, 2014 11:55:28 GMT -5
Reading "reports" and "replies" means DICK.... Until a court setting, with penalties for lying us held, this is all blame game BS.. ... I completely agree! This is the exact opposite of what you said though. You said flat out 100% that Winston raped that girl... based on those "reports" that mean dick. Whiskey tango foxtrot??? Saying you want due diligence done is completely different than saying for a fact that he did it. Where is the disconnect here?
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Post by CFF on Apr 17, 2014 13:42:29 GMT -5
Shouldn't this tell you not to convict a guy before seeing all the evidence then? Saying the guy should be before a jury and saying the guilty is definitively 100% guilty are completely different things. IF Winston did this, then I want him held accountable and be locked up for a long time. How in the hell can any of US know he did this though? And I'm not even saying ignore this story. Keep on it and ask for a proper investigation. There are definitely some odd things that went on. Bad police work does not mean he's guilty though, and to crucify someone before you know all the facts or see all the evidence is nothing but a lynch mob mentality and is extremely dangerous. No, with the proper information a person can make their own mind up.... The point being their maybe 2 million out there that feel the same as I... At this current moment, the evidense say... "Go to trial"..... That's all I want. Go to trial like this case would have done if he was not an FSU high profile future starting QB... Then if a jury finds him not guilty, them I will accept it... Just as I know a jury, even with me on it, CSN be corrected... Reading "reports" and "replies" means DICK.... Until a court setting, with penalties for lying us held, this is all blame game BS.. Just because someone is found guilty in a court of law doesn't mean that they committed a crime. An example of this was just on the news yesterday. Two girls in South Dakota (I think) were in a car wreck in 1971. A man was convicted of murder because the courts did not know where the bodies were but just assumed that he killed them based upon his past and statements of less than credible witnesses. Long story short, the bodies were found in the car that they wrecked in. They had been preserved in a river bank and were not murdered, but died in a car accident. The man was found guilty of their murder in a court of law though.
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Post by CFF on Apr 17, 2014 13:45:37 GMT -5
Here is the story. It was on the news this week, but the bodies were found in September...I think.
A 1971 cold case is being investigated after a car was discovered in South Dakota with skeletal remains inside, and possibly belong to Cheryl Miller and Pamella Jackson. They disappeared in 1971.
WATERTOWN, S.D. (AP) — Sisters of one of two 17-year-old girls who disappeared in South Dakota in 1971 say the discovery of a car with skeletal remains has stirred up many emotions, including relief.
Cheryl Miller and Pamella Jackson were last seen May 29, 1971, driving a 1960 Studebaker Lark on their way to a party. Authorities this week pulled a rusted Studebaker from an embankment in Brule Creek near Elk Point — including a hubcap and a license plate matching the car once owned by Miller’s grandfather — and are conducting an autopsy on the remains and processing other evidence.
“Very overwhelming,” Rita Allen, Miller’s sister, told KELO-TV (http://bit.ly/1701MoO ). “You go through your life from then until now and the biggest wish from our mother was never give up, never give up.”
“And no one ever has,” said Dawn Hewlett, another sister. Both women live in Watertown.
The old car was discovered and reported to authorities by an angler who came across it and remembered the 42-year-old case.
The bridge near where the vehicle was found had been inspected every two years for at least two decades, the Argus Leader reported. The creek otherwise sees little traffic at that site, according to Union County Public Works Superintendent Ray Roggow. Attorney General Marty Jackley said record flooding followed by a drought brought the vehicle into view.
Allen and Hewlett said they are grateful for the development and will wait to see what answers they get. They are not setting any expectations.
“We will wait, you know, for more information as it comes and deal with that piece by piece and deal with that as we have dealt with this through the years, piece by piece,” Allen said.
The Vermillion High School juniors’ disappearance was one of the first cases that the state’s coldcase unit took on after it was formed in 2004. A search that September of a Union County farm turned up bones, clothing, a purse, photographs, newspaper articles and other items. Authorities have never said if the bones were the girls’.
At one point, prosecutors file murder charges in the case against David Lykken, who lived at the farm in 1971 and is serving an unrelated 227-year prison sentence for rape and kidnapping. The charges later were dropped when authorities discovered a prison snitch made up a supposed admission.
The discovery of the car could bring relief to the Lykken family as well, Richard Stene, a friend and neighbor of the family, told KELO.
“I’m glad they found it. If the girls’ bodies are in the car, it will sure be a relief to the families and especially the Lykkens,” Stene said.
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Post by cobrakai on Apr 17, 2014 18:47:39 GMT -5
A prosecutor should not go to trial unless there is enough evidence to prove the case. You cannot try everyone who is accused of a crime.
Even though jurors are supposed to be impartial, most start out leaning guilty because they believe the state wouldn't go after an innocent person.
This case involves two people who agree they had sex. One says it was completely consensual and one who claims rape.
There is evidence that sex occurred between the two, but no evidence force was used.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2014 3:54:45 GMT -5
Did he have sex with her? Yes
Is there DNA? Yes.
Is there a police report filed the next day, rape kit, complaint? Yes.
Was it a month or longer till she could recognize the man? Yes.
Was there the appearance of a coverup? ayes, if only in appearance, it is there.
Was there missing evidense that would be vital to a jury? Yes. His vanishing phone with the video of the whole thing.
Go to trial.
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csd10
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Post by csd10 on Apr 18, 2014 8:32:54 GMT -5
Did he have sex with her? Yes Is there DNA? Yes. Is there a police report filed the next day, rape kit, complaint? Yes. Was it a month or longer till she could recognize the man? Yes. Was there the appearance of a coverup? ayes, if only in appearance, it is there. Was there missing evidense that would be vital to a jury? Yes. His vanishing phone with the video of the whole thing. Go to trial. Having sex with a girl and there being DNA to verify it is not a crime. Her BAC showed she wasn't drunk. Her blood work also showed she hadn't ingested any drugs. The cop who interviewed her said she was coherent. The rape exam showed no signs of forced entry. Her only "injuries" were rug burns on her knees. All of this was done before it was known that a football player would end up being the accused. Read the reports the DA released. I don't know if Winston is guilty or innocent, but a complaint with no supporting evidence (and a changing story by the person filing the complaint) is not necessarily enough to go to trial on. Especially considering the inconsistencies in her story weren't insignificant details, like "I left the bar at 11:30 instead of midnight like I initially said." The accuser told one friend who spoke to police she was at a house-party and was hit over the head, neither of which occurred. Also, regarding the vanishing phone. Because you have your mind made up (and probably have had it made up since the first second this story scrolled across the ESPN ticker), you view the long-gone phone as a sign of guilt and a cover-up, when it's very possible that the phone and the video it contained would show that she wasn't raped (only that the guy who took the video is a creep). I'm not interested in changing your mind on this story. At this point it's impossible anyway. You have your own narrative of the events implanted firmly in your mind. I'm just pointing out some significant gaps in your post.
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Post by CFF on Apr 18, 2014 9:15:52 GMT -5
Did he have sex with her? Yes Is there DNA? Yes. Is there a police report filed the next day, rape kit, complaint? Yes. Was it a month or longer till she could recognize the man? Yes. Was there the appearance of a coverup? ayes, if only in appearance, it is there. Was there missing evidense that would be vital to a jury? Yes. His vanishing phone with the video of the whole thing. Go to trial.
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Post by cobrakai on Apr 18, 2014 14:48:44 GMT -5
Did he have sex with her? Yes Yes he said he had sex with her. There is no dispute of this fact.Is there DNA? Yes. They had sex, so there is DNA. No one disputes that.Is there a police report filed the next day, rape kit, complaint? Yes. Anyone can file a police report. Doesn't mean a crime was commited. No evidence of sex was forced. Two different sets of DNA found.
Was it a month or longer till she could recognize the man? Yes. I am not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying it took her a month to figure out who he was?Was there the appearance of a coverup? ayes, if only in appearance, it is there. Cops did not have enough evidence to arrest Winston. They warned girl it would get bad if she went ahead with it. Without definitive proof, she would be vilified by some. Was there missing evidense that would be vital to a jury? Yes. His vanishing phone with the video of the whole thing. It would help if the video still existed, but lack of the evidence doesn't prove anything illegal happened.
Go to trial. With nothing to go on but the girls word vs Winston's word. No prosecutor would risk the backlash of trying someone he knows he has no chance of convicting.
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