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Post by dpb13 on Apr 25, 2009 19:09:43 GMT -5
(CNN) -- The indigenous people of Alaska have stood firm against some of the most extreme weather conditions on Earth for thousands of years. But now, flooding blamed on climate change is forcing at least one Eskimo village to move to safer ground. The community of the tiny coastal village of Newtok voted to relocate its 340 residents to new homes 9 miles away, up the Ninglick River. The village, home to indigenous Yup'ik Eskimos, is the first of possibly scores of threatened Alaskan communities that could be abandoned. Warming temperatures are melting coastal ice shelves and frozen sub-soils, which act as natural barriers to protect the village against summer deluges from ocean storm surges. "We are seeing the erosion, flooding and sinking of our village right now," said Stanley Tom, a Yup'ik Eskimo and tribal administrator for the Newtok Traditional Council. The crisis is unique because its devastating effects creep up on communities, eating away at their infrastructure, unlike with sudden natural disasters such as wildfires, earthquakes or hurricanes. www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/04/24/climate.change.eskimos/index.html
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Post by Life's too short. on Apr 25, 2009 19:19:39 GMT -5
Once again, you're ignoring the real statement and clarifications that have now made about a million times. GLOBAL WARMING DOES NOT MEAN MAN-CAUSED GLOBAL WARMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is all.
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Post by dpb13 on Apr 25, 2009 19:29:59 GMT -5
Once again, you're ignoring the real statement and clarifications that have now made about a million times. GLOBAL WARMING DOES NOT MEAN MAN-CAUSED GLOBAL WARMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is all. There are several people who deny that ANY global warming is happening. You can see it on this very board every time there is a freak snow storm. That is all.
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Post by Life's too short. on Apr 25, 2009 19:38:43 GMT -5
I even make those statements, but it's not because I don't believe it's happening, just that it has absolutely nothing to do with what the Global Warming hysteria advocates (including Al Gore) are spouting and one good joke deserves another.
Lancaster has been colder than crikey the last couple years. Our summers aren't as hot and our winters are much colder (two big snowstorms this year alone when we're typically good for less than one a decade, and in March we saw more than a third of the days in the month with lows below freezing -- far above normal). Just like the Lancaster "evidence" can't be blamed on the activities of man or applied on a global scale, neither can the vast majority of the stuff being hyped up about GW.
The examples given about the Arctic and Antarctic aren't only represented in prior events in geologic history, they're represented in written history of much more recent periods --- long, LONG before industrialization and the automobile ever showed up in the picture. But for some reason, the fear-mongers want to accept no reason but man's disregard for the environment as the only possible cause for it this time around. Generally in direct contradiction to actual historical evidence and rational interpretation.
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Post by dpb13 on Apr 25, 2009 19:42:29 GMT -5
I even make those statements, but it's not because I don't believe it's happening, just that it has absolutely nothing to do with what the Global Warming hysteria advocates (including Al Gore) are spouting and one good joke deserves another. Lancaster has been colder than crikey the last couple years. Our summers aren't as hot and our winters are much colder (two big snowstorms this year alone when we're typically good for less than one a decade, and in March we saw more than a third of the days in the month with lows below freezing -- far above normal). Just like the Lancaster "evidence" can't be blamed on the activities of man or applied on a global scale, neither can the vast majority of the stuff being hyped up about GW. The examples given about the Arctic and Antarctic aren't only represented in prior events in geologic history, they're represented in written history of much more recent periods --- long, LONG before industrialization and the automobile ever showed up in the picture. But for some reason, the fear-mongers want to accept no reason but man's disregard for the environment as the only possible cause for it this time around. Generally in direct contradiction to actual historical evidence and rational interpretation. Sad, There have been forest fires for millions of years. They are often sparked by lightning. Does that mean that man doesn't cause forest fires?
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Post by bcsbbad on Apr 25, 2009 19:55:26 GMT -5
Global warming is good - it happens and has happened for a very long time - it will cause another Ice Age - it's nature's way and as much as you'd to like to think it you can't and will never fuck with "mother nature" - you also can't control or influence her - mother nature rules and our attempts to control or change always fail - not saying we shouldn't do things to piss her off - just saying she rules ;d
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GatorzBack2Back
Senator
At halftime, he shall heal the sick, feed the hungry, and circumsize the anteaters.
Posts: 3,544
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Post by GatorzBack2Back on Apr 25, 2009 20:55:47 GMT -5
Once again, you're ignoring the real statement and clarifications that have now made about a million times. GLOBAL WARMING DOES NOT MEAN MAN-CAUSED GLOBAL WARMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is all. There are several people who deny that ANY global warming is happening. You can see it on this very board every time there is a freak snow storm. That is all. Just in case I am lumped in with that group, let me take this opportunity to say that Sadovin could have been standing on a stage with an arm up my ass making me say that, and I would not refute saying it. In other words, I agree that temps may be slowly rising, but there is NO FREAKING WAY that man is causing it.
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Post by dpb13 on Apr 25, 2009 20:57:00 GMT -5
There are several people who deny that ANY global warming is happening. You can see it on this very board every time there is a freak snow storm. That is all. Just in case I am lumped in with that group, let me take this opportunity to say that Sadovin could have been standing on a stage with an arm up my ass making me say that, and I would not refute saying it. In other words, I agree that temps may be slowly rising, but there is NO FREAKING WAY that man is causing it. And you know this how?
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spur
Senator
Posts: 3,416
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Post by spur on Apr 25, 2009 21:00:32 GMT -5
strong statement. tons of people with phDs disagree with you. do you have a phD?
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Post by redstick13 on Apr 25, 2009 21:01:52 GMT -5
strong statement. tons of people with phDs disagree with you. do you have a phD? How did we manage to cause all the past global warming and subsequent ice ages?
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Post by dpb13 on Apr 25, 2009 21:03:29 GMT -5
strong statement. tons of people with phDs disagree with you. do you have a phD? How did we manage to cause all the past global warming and subsequent ice ages? Must I repeat myself? There have been forest fires for millions of years. They are often sparked by lightning. Does that mean that man doesn't cause forest fires?
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spur
Senator
Posts: 3,416
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Post by spur on Apr 25, 2009 21:03:32 GMT -5
that's completely beside the point, redstick. I'm not convinced one way or the other. but for him to say there is absolutely no way? come on, anybody should question that statement.
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GatorzBack2Back
Senator
At halftime, he shall heal the sick, feed the hungry, and circumsize the anteaters.
Posts: 3,544
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Post by GatorzBack2Back on Apr 25, 2009 21:03:45 GMT -5
I even make those statements, but it's not because I don't believe it's happening, just that it has absolutely nothing to do with what the Global Warming hysteria advocates (including Al Gore) are spouting and one good joke deserves another. Lancaster has been colder than crikey the last couple years. Our summers aren't as hot and our winters are much colder (two big snowstorms this year alone when we're typically good for less than one a decade, and in March we saw more than a third of the days in the month with lows below freezing -- far above normal). Just like the Lancaster "evidence" can't be blamed on the activities of man or applied on a global scale, neither can the vast majority of the stuff being hyped up about GW. The examples given about the Arctic and Antarctic aren't only represented in prior events in geologic history, they're represented in written history of much more recent periods --- long, LONG before industrialization and the automobile ever showed up in the picture. But for some reason, the fear-mongers want to accept no reason but man's disregard for the environment as the only possible cause for it this time around. Generally in direct contradiction to actual historical evidence and rational interpretation. Sad, There have been forest fires for millions of years. They are often sparked by lightning. Does that mean that man doesn't cause forest fires? If you want to use that analogy, then at least put it in correct proportion. The Earth naturally puts out over 750 megatons of CO2 every year through volcanic activity, plant decay, and other natural phenomenon. But, man puts out less than 3 megatons a year. So, in order to use your analogy, you need to say: Lightning is nature's way of starting forest fires. But can man start a forest fire using a hair dryer?
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Post by redstick13 on Apr 25, 2009 21:04:54 GMT -5
It's a known fact that as the caps melt they will cause an increased fresh water flow into the Atlantic Ocean. The salinity will be decreased and the flow of water from north to south and south to north will slow. This will result in less warm water being carried north and the world will see decreasing global temperatures once again. It's happened many times before and it will happen again. Man can't do diddly squat to stop it, it's coming people.
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Post by dpb13 on Apr 25, 2009 21:06:44 GMT -5
Sad, There have been forest fires for millions of years. They are often sparked by lightning. Does that mean that man doesn't cause forest fires? If you want to use that analogy, then at least put it in correct proportion. The Earth naturally puts out over 750 megatons of CO2 every year through volcanic activity, plant decay, and other natural phenomenon. But, man puts out less than 3 megatons a year. So, in order to use your analogy, you need to say: Lightning is nature's way of starting forest fires. But can man start a forest fire using a hair dryer? Youre missing the point. Just because it has happened before and was not caused by man does not mean it could not happen again and be caused by man, does it? The two are not mutually exclusive.
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Post by redstick13 on Apr 25, 2009 21:07:57 GMT -5
You honestly believe the current warming cycle is man made? You have a much bigger faith in man's abilities than I do then.
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GatorzBack2Back
Senator
At halftime, he shall heal the sick, feed the hungry, and circumsize the anteaters.
Posts: 3,544
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Post by GatorzBack2Back on Apr 25, 2009 21:08:02 GMT -5
strong statement. tons of people with phDs disagree with you. do you have a phD? Tons of people started out working WITH Al Gore on his 'scientific' quorums. But a large amount of them have since left those committees and publicly renounced them as full of bad science and manipulating the evidence to say what they wanted them too. So although back in the 90s when this issue first got hot, a lot of people were jumping on the bandwagon, since then, the tide has returned, and the majority is now AGAINST the thought that man causes global temperature increases.
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Post by redstick13 on Apr 25, 2009 21:08:58 GMT -5
We all know what this is really about. It's about making money off people's fears and pushing through agendas. Nothing more.
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spur
Senator
Posts: 3,416
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Post by spur on Apr 25, 2009 21:10:22 GMT -5
and i'm not dismissing the possibility. but i don't claim to know enough about it to say definitively one way or another.
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Post by dpb13 on Apr 25, 2009 21:11:04 GMT -5
We all know what this is really about. It's about making money off people's fears and pushing through agendas. Nothing more. Right. Exactly. It's a vast liberal conspiracy. The ice is not melting. The glaciers are not disappearing. The west is not having water issues. It's all a scam.
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Post by redstick13 on Apr 25, 2009 21:12:18 GMT -5
If you ask me it's no better than the Bush administration lying about WMD's in Iraq which you so frequently like to bring up.
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GatorzBack2Back
Senator
At halftime, he shall heal the sick, feed the hungry, and circumsize the anteaters.
Posts: 3,544
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Post by GatorzBack2Back on Apr 25, 2009 21:13:39 GMT -5
If you want to use that analogy, then at least put it in correct proportion. The Earth naturally puts out over 750 megatons of CO2 every year through volcanic activity, plant decay, and other natural phenomenon. But, man puts out less than 3 megatons a year. So, in order to use your analogy, you need to say: Lightning is nature's way of starting forest fires. But can man start a forest fire using a hair dryer? You're missing the point. Just because it has happened before and was not caused by man does not mean it could not happen again and be caused by man, does it? The two are not mutually exclusive. Well my point was that just as a forest can prevent a fire by blow dryer with a cool breeze, nature can absorb and exchange Man's portion of CO2 without even skipping a beat. Besides, you're missing the MAIN point, which is that you have it all backwards....temperatures don't rise because of higher CO2 levels. CO2 levels rise because of higher temps! Go back through ice core samples, tree ring samples, soil layer tests, etc....you will see that temps rise first. THEN CO2 rises. So, tell me again how we are causing Global Warming with our gasses?
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Post by redstick13 on Apr 25, 2009 21:13:46 GMT -5
So you then you agree with what Bush did dpd? Making a decision off questionable information? You're advocating the same here.
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Post by dpb13 on Apr 25, 2009 21:15:31 GMT -5
If you ask me it's no better than the Bush administration lying about WMD's in Iraq which you so frequently like to bring up. It would be no better....if the global warming types are lying. Even if you think ALL those scientists are wrong, to accuse of them lying is absurd.
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GatorzBack2Back
Senator
At halftime, he shall heal the sick, feed the hungry, and circumsize the anteaters.
Posts: 3,544
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Post by GatorzBack2Back on Apr 25, 2009 21:16:42 GMT -5
We all know what this is really about. It's about making money off people's fears and pushing through agendas. Nothing more. Right. Exactly. It's a vast liberal conspiracy. The ice is not melting. The glaciers are not disappearing. The west is not having water issues. It's all a scam. dbp, while the edges may be melting a bit, the centers of the ice caps have been thickening since the mid-90s due to increased snow levels. And they act the same as a pile of sand, whereas it piles up in the middle and then starts to spread out. So, given time, those edges will again be thick when this current snow spreads out. Like Red says, it's been happening long before us, and it will happen whether I ride a bike to work, or my Titan.
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Post by redstick13 on Apr 25, 2009 21:17:35 GMT -5
Everytime man assumes he knows what is best of nature we end up with a mess on our hands. We did the same with Yellowstone park when it was established. It was to be maintained in its natural state but the first thing we did was begin species control and stop the burns that the Native Americans carried out. The result? Yellowstone looks nothing like it did when it was established as a natural preserve.
Here we are again presuming we know what is causing global warming and magnanimously claiming, We did it! We can stop it.
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Post by redstick13 on Apr 25, 2009 21:19:05 GMT -5
If you ask me it's no better than the Bush administration lying about WMD's in Iraq which you so frequently like to bring up. It would be no better....if the global warming types are lying. Even if you think ALL those scientists are wrong, to accuse of them lying is absurd. Not ALL the scientist in the world agree with Gore. There are actually some out there that believe otherwise. Quite a few really.
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Post by dpb13 on Apr 25, 2009 21:19:35 GMT -5
So you then you agree with what Bush did dpd? Making a decision off questionable information? You're advocating the same here. Incorrect. The Bush admin deliberatly manipulated intel to justify the war they wanted.
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Post by redstick13 on Apr 25, 2009 21:20:20 GMT -5
The thing is dpd, they have all this data that they've compiled but they have nothing to compare it against. They're doing nothing more than making a S.W.A.G..
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Post by dpb13 on Apr 25, 2009 21:20:58 GMT -5
It would be no better....if the global warming types are lying. Even if you think ALL those scientists are wrong, to accuse of them lying is absurd. Not ALL the scientist in the world agree with Gore. There are actually some out there that believe otherwise. Quite a few really. I did not say that ALL scientists did.
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