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Post by MIZ-SIU on Jul 28, 2009 0:43:30 GMT -5
?
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Post by bry716 on Jul 28, 2009 1:47:59 GMT -5
I voted yes because I believe he has been punished enough by MLB. The HOF is for what you did on the field, and if the criteria to get in is what you did on the field, then he is certainly a hall of famer. Baseball needs to get over themselves. There are guys in the HOF who were not good dudes, so if they are allowed to be in so should Rose.
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Post by tophb21 on Jul 28, 2009 7:20:06 GMT -5
I voted yes because I believe he has been punished enough by MLB. The HOF is for what you did on the field, and if the criteria to get in is what you did on the field, then he is certainly a hall of famer. Baseball needs to get over themselves. There are guys in the HOF who were not good dudes, so if they are allowed to be in so should Rose. I agree with everything you say there. I think he should be in the HOF for his playing career, but not reinstated. I don't think he should ever be allowed to work in baseball again.
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Post by 96Ag on Jul 28, 2009 8:03:52 GMT -5
I agree with toph.
The HOF needs to have Pete Rose in it.
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Post by dpb13 on Jul 28, 2009 8:25:32 GMT -5
Accepted a lifetime ban, and last I checked he is still alive.
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Post by BTB07 on Jul 28, 2009 8:51:17 GMT -5
I would say that Rose should be in the Hall of Fame.
I also think that Rose should not be allowed to coach, manage, or be involved with Major League Baseball.
The Hall of Fame without the all-time hits leader is incomplete.
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Post by Bradimous1 on Jul 28, 2009 15:46:08 GMT -5
so what... you want to put him in with an asterisk behind his name and lump him in with the steroid cheaters... I think that he should be reinstated... he is either one or the other, but if you put an asterisk behind his name, everyone will lump him with the guys that cheated to get ahead in the game.
modified to let everyone know that this was not intended to be a direct retort to anyone... except toph ;D
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Post by tophb21 on Jul 28, 2009 16:47:51 GMT -5
so what... you want to put him in with an asterisk behind his name and lump him in with the steroid cheaters... I think that he should be reinstated... he is either one or the other, but if you put an asterisk behind his name, everyone will lump him with the guys that cheated to get ahead in the game. modified to let everyone know that this was not intended to be a direct retort to anyone... except toph ;D No asterik. Don't reinstate him, which would allow him to work again in some capacity in baseball. All I was saying that he still can't have an official working title with MLB, but to me the HOF is separate and is for his achievements that he did on the field. Is that a little more clear? I hope so. I know that UT is remedial and all, but try to keep up with the pace. ;D
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Post by BTB07 on Jul 28, 2009 17:57:11 GMT -5
The Hall of Fame is not connected to the MLB (except that the players from the MLB fill up the HOF). But he can be put into the Hall of Fame without being able to work in baseball. I think that is the thing that would make the most people happy.
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SoonerAlum
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Post by SoonerAlum on Jul 28, 2009 18:58:01 GMT -5
Accepted a lifetime ban, and last I checked he is still alive. Is he still alive? Then no. Gambling on games is the #1 no-no in baseball. When he's no longer with us, then he can get into the Hall. That would be the meaning of a lifetime ban.
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Post by BTB07 on Jul 28, 2009 20:48:01 GMT -5
Accepted a lifetime ban, and last I checked he is still alive. Is he still alive? Then no. Gambling on games is the #1 no-no in baseball. When he's no longer with us, then he can get into the Hall. That would be the meaning of a lifetime ban. What about Shoeless Joe Jackson? He is no longer alive, is it time to lift his ban?
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Post by BTB07 on Jul 28, 2009 20:54:36 GMT -5
I guess another part of the problem is that he filed an appeal almost 20 years ago, and nothing has happened with it.
Why can't the Reds retire his number 14? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Betting on the game is not only bad, it is awful. The question is, is it worse than what some of the guys who are already in the Hall of Fame did? Is it worse than taking PED's?
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Post by SoonerAlum on Jul 28, 2009 22:00:52 GMT -5
I'm all for putting Shoeless Joe in.
As far as PEDs, I say Clemens, Bonds and all of the rest can join Pete in his little booth at Cooperstown. Will it happen? Probably not. But...
The reason gambling is #1 on the list of no-nos, posted in every clubhouse in the majors, is because it casts doubt on the game. Manager makes a weird decision about pinch hitters or pulling his pitcher, base runner makes a couple of "mental mistakes" on the base paths, an error in the outfield in the 10th loses the game, gambling calls all of that into question.
PED, while despicable, just taint records. They don't call into question the fabric of the game.
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Post by BTB07 on Jul 28, 2009 22:38:49 GMT -5
I think Shoeless Joe Jackson should be in as well.
The thing about gambling is very serious and your explanation was right on. But when you enter a clubhouse does it also say something like 'don't cheat the game' which is what the PED users did? Does it say something like 'don't kill anyone'.
The PED users will lobby to get into the hall, but the cheated the game very badly.
The last reference was to several of the early players (including Cobb) who were almost assuredly killers.
The Hall of Fame wants players who were great on the field, but off the field as well. I suppose the question becomes: Do you take the guys out of the Hall who 'violated' these types of rules, or do you continue to put them in?'
Obviously as a Reds fan my opinion is biased. I think what Rose did was less of cheating the game than the guys who performed artificially well and affected the outcome of the games in a much more serious manner.
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Post by SoonerAlum on Jul 29, 2009 5:16:48 GMT -5
I know Cardinals fans who still defend McGwire. Not me. I agree with you 100%, PED users did and are still damaging the game. But until Bud grows a pair (ain't gonna happen), they haven't been banned for life. They should be.
As far as cheaters, there have always been and probably always will be the guys who try to get an edge. Corked bats, sandpaper on the mound...hell, the Niekro's made a career (Phil, a Hall of Fame career) out of doctoring the ball. Baseball has always turned a bit of a blind eye to cheaters. Make rules to fix problems AFTER the popular guys cheating have retired.
As far as Cobb and the others who were drinkers, womanizers, etc...well, I don't know what to say. Cobb, by all accounts, was an asshat racist and quite possibly a murderer. But he was never convicted and I don't know that you can go retro on him and yank him.
Look, I understand both sides of the argument. Part of me says "Yes, let him in" just so he'll shut up and go away. But, to me, his lack of remorse combined with the fact that he gambled on baseball AND accepted a lifetime ban, equal no Hall until later this century.
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Post by tophb21 on Jul 29, 2009 11:42:02 GMT -5
I'm all for putting Shoeless Joe in. As far as PEDs, I say Clemens, Bonds and all of the rest can join Pete in his little booth at Cooperstown. Will it happen? Probably not. But... The reason gambling is #1 on the list of no-nos, posted in every clubhouse in the majors, is because it casts doubt on the game. Manager makes a weird decision about pinch hitters or pulling his pitcher, base runner makes a couple of "mental mistakes" on the base paths, an error in the outfield in the 10th loses the game, gambling calls all of that into question. PED, while despicable, just taint records. They don't call into question the fabric of the game. I think tainting records does question the fabric of the game. What was real and what wasn't. In my book it's no different than betting on the game.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2009 12:02:54 GMT -5
Pete Rose should be in the HOF and should be reinstated.... If someone's dumb enough to give him a job, then so be it... Similar to a company hiring a convicted felon.. If they want to take the risk, then it's up to them to take the criticism that comes with their decision... The HOF (to me) is a no-brainer... Like everyone said, a sport that uses the magical numbers and statistics to sell itself needs to have the leader in hits enshrined...
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Post by BTB07 on Jul 29, 2009 15:56:37 GMT -5
Pete Rose should be in the HOF and should be reinstated.... If someone's dumb enough to give him a job, then so be it... Similar to a company hiring a convicted felon.. If they want to take the risk, then it's up to them to take the criticism that comes with their decision... The HOF (to me) is a no-brainer... Like everyone said, a sport that uses the magical numbers and statistics to sell itself needs to have the leader in hits enshrined... Goose you could have just agreed with me. ;D
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