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Post by BTB07 on Aug 15, 2009 19:24:08 GMT -5
Tonight I am watching the LLWS and am just slightly disappointed.
I have seen a lot of HRs, and a couple of nice plays. The unfortunate part is to see kids that are 12 years-old (some are 13) only pitching from the windup. The lack of developing a good motion from the stretch (under pressure in a game situation) is going to hurt these kids when they tryout for their 7th grade team (which pitches from 60 feet, not 46).
The field is too small for 12 year-olds. The mound is too short for 12 year-olds.
I know they are having a great time, and is awesome for them, but I think that Little League baseball retards some of the development (stretch, base stealing, etc.).
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Post by MIZ-SIU on Aug 15, 2009 22:02:54 GMT -5
I have some problems besides the ones you mentioned. They throw so many curveballs. Have these teams heard of a change up. These coaches are going to kill these kid's arms. One other problem I have is that some people think that these are the best 12-13 year old kids in the world. When I was that age there was a team in St. Louis that dominated everybody and won every tourney they ever went (they beat my team 10-1). They played the US champion with the stupid Little League rules and ten runned them. Those fences have always disgusted me as well. Some of the HRs look like routine flyballs. I think when I was that age I played at 54 ft to home plate, 85 ft in between bases, and the walls at my park were 285ft
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Post by BTB07 on Aug 15, 2009 22:11:37 GMT -5
I have some problems besides the ones you mentioned. They throw so many curveballs. Have these teams heard of a change up. These coaches are going to kill these kid's arms. One other problem I have is that some people think that these are the best 12-13 year old kids in the world. When I was that age there was a team in St. Louis that dominated everybody and won every tourney they ever went (they beat my team 10-1). They played the US champion with the stupid Little League rules and ten runned them. Those fences have always disgusted me as well. Some of the HRs look like routine flyballs. I think when I was that age I played at 54 ft to home plate, 85 ft in between bases, and the walls at my park were 285ft I don't want to disparage what the kids are doing. I am happy that they are having a great time, and that they get to be on ESPN in on of the great moments in their childhood. However, why do they play distances at age 12 that are closer to what kids play at age 10? The travel team that I coach was 10 and we played 65 foot bases (they play 60!) and pitched from 46 feet (same as the LLWS). Next year when they are 11 they will play 70 foot bases and 50 foot rubber. The field for the travel dimensions seems to grow with the players and the LLWS seems to be stuck with kids that are too big for the dimensions they are playing (bases, mound, fences). The kids who play in the LLWS are very good, and some prominent big leaguers have played in the LLWS (but many of them were before the major hype of travel ball at the younger ages that exists today). I happen to think that a 12 year-old travel team would beat up these teams. The fences are too short and routine flyballs have turned into homeruns. It is like watching a MLB game from the 1990's . Way too many HRs and way too many strikeouts (I blame this on the dimensions in large part).
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Post by BTB07 on Aug 15, 2009 22:13:24 GMT -5
I agree with the curveballs. I didn't throw an actual curve until I was about 15, and was an effective pitcher. Then I mixed in the curve and was effective at the Legion level. It isn't a necessity to get people out...
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Post by MIZ-SIU on Aug 15, 2009 22:15:30 GMT -5
I am not trying to be a jerk and take away from these kids but if ESPN wants to show the best 12 year olds, there are so many better tourneys they can show
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Post by BTB07 on Aug 15, 2009 22:17:36 GMT -5
I am not trying to be a jerk and take away from these kids but if ESPN wants to show the best 12 year olds, there are so many better tourneys they can show Agreed. I played in some when I was 12. We went out of state and played teams from across the country and from Puerto Rico with High School rules and 50 foot mound and 70 foot bases (moved up to 54, 80 at 13).
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Post by MIZ-SIU on Aug 15, 2009 22:19:44 GMT -5
I remember the first tourney I played in the South. Man they can play ball down there
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Post by BTB07 on Aug 15, 2009 22:28:50 GMT -5
I remember the first tourney I played in the South. Man they can play ball down there Hell yeah they do. Not only do they play great ball down there, a lot of kids, on a lot of teams play great baseball. The East Cobb program is without a doubt the best in the country. They field multiple teams, and win a bunch of big time tournaments (CABA, USSSA, etc.)
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Post by MIZ-SIU on Aug 15, 2009 22:32:36 GMT -5
I remember the first tourney I played in the South. Man they can play ball down there Hell yeah they do. Not only do they play great ball down there, a lot of kids, on a lot of teams play great baseball. The East Cobb program is without a doubt the best in the country. They field multiple teams, and win a bunch of big time tournaments (CABA, USSSA, etc.) East Cobb program is great and they put on nice tourneys to play in.
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Post by MIZ-SIU on Aug 15, 2009 22:33:32 GMT -5
I agree with the curveballs. I didn't throw an actual curve until I was about 15, and was an effective pitcher. Then I mixed in the curve and was effective at the Legion level. It isn't a necessity to get people out... Yeah I did not throw a curve ball until 14. I love the change up
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Post by BTB07 on Aug 15, 2009 22:48:21 GMT -5
Hell yeah they do. Not only do they play great ball down there, a lot of kids, on a lot of teams play great baseball. The East Cobb program is without a doubt the best in the country. They field multiple teams, and win a bunch of big time tournaments (CABA, USSSA, etc.) East Cobb program is great and they put on nice tourneys to play in. Never been to one that they hosted. But I did see that they sent a couple of teams to a CABA world Series event with a couple of really high caliber teams at the 14 year old level (maybe 15?) and they had 2 teams in the final 4.
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Post by BTB07 on Aug 15, 2009 22:49:37 GMT -5
I agree with the curveballs. I didn't throw an actual curve until I was about 15, and was an effective pitcher. Then I mixed in the curve and was effective at the Legion level. It isn't a necessity to get people out... Yeah I did not throw a curve ball until 14. I love the change up The nastiest pitches in the MLB might be Johan's changeup and Lincecum's change. Of course they have good fastballs that they locate to set it up, but it is an effective pitch, even at the MLB level.
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Post by badgersballers on Aug 15, 2009 23:28:24 GMT -5
I agree with you on the baseball parks, and that they should be bigger, but that being said they aren't the best teams at the age, but it's definantly one of the most exciting sporting events this summer.
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Post by BTB07 on Aug 15, 2009 23:34:23 GMT -5
This year our 10 year old team played at a field that was 200 all around the fence. Our team hit 7 HRs in about 25 games and our opponents hit about 6 HRs. It wasn't a ton of Homers, but again they were 10 years old.
I don't mind that the kids can hit HRs (it makes some of the games really exciting). But I do think that some of the HRs are seriously 'cheap ones'. Just not big enough for a group of kids that are HUGE. The 12 year-olds have outgrown that size field (and this is sort of a recent thing IMO).
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Post by MIZ-SIU on Aug 15, 2009 23:39:09 GMT -5
I always love seeing how many Little Leaguers are bigger than me. Some of the kids are huge
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Post by tophb21 on Aug 16, 2009 17:06:16 GMT -5
In regards to the pitching aspect. I think that BTB and I discussed in depth on his team's thread quite a bit about the curve ball. I didn't throw one until I was 15 and I never had an ERA above 3.00 at the Varsity level.
These kids usually aren't throwing the curve properly and are going to end up doing damage to their arms. 4 seamer, and a 2 seam cutter, along with a change up is all these kids need. Stress location at that age and these kids will be much further along.
I also would like to seem them develop from the stretch, but I don't think that is as big a factor. I didn't until I was 13 and made the adjustments just fine.
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Post by BTB07 on Aug 16, 2009 21:46:08 GMT -5
In regards to the pitching aspect. I think that BTB and I discussed in depth on his team's thread quite a bit about the curve ball. I didn't throw one until I was 15 and I never had an ERA above 3.00 at the Varsity level. These kids usually aren't throwing the curve properly and are going to end up doing damage to their arms. 4 seamer, and a 2 seam cutter, along with a change up is all these kids need. Stress location at that age and these kids will be much further along. I also would like to seem them develop from the stretch, but I don't think that is as big a factor. I didn't until I was 13 and made the adjustments just fine. I do hate to see them throw a curveball Toph. They are pretty obviously not ready to do so (and some of their mechanics make me cringe). That is interesting Toph. I started throwing from the stretch when I was 8 years-old. So I guess I take it for granted and think it is better because that is my experience. When I was 9 years-old I would walk a batter just to pick them off with the pickoff move that I had worked on with my dad since I was 7. The kids who play in the LLWS are good, but I don't think they would beat a lot of the travel teams if they were to play the 50/70 distances. Really think that having 12 year-olds pitch from 46 feet, then pitching from 60 feet in school ball in middle school is ridiculous.
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Post by MIZ-SIU on Aug 16, 2009 21:49:33 GMT -5
One other thing I hate is how they show the losing boys crying. C'mon ESPN
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Post by tophb21 on Aug 17, 2009 12:37:53 GMT -5
In regards to the pitching aspect. I think that BTB and I discussed in depth on his team's thread quite a bit about the curve ball. I didn't throw one until I was 15 and I never had an ERA above 3.00 at the Varsity level. These kids usually aren't throwing the curve properly and are going to end up doing damage to their arms. 4 seamer, and a 2 seam cutter, along with a change up is all these kids need. Stress location at that age and these kids will be much further along. I also would like to seem them develop from the stretch, but I don't think that is as big a factor. I didn't until I was 13 and made the adjustments just fine. I do hate to see them throw a curveball Toph. They are pretty obviously not ready to do so (and some of their mechanics make me cringe). That is interesting Toph. I started throwing from the stretch when I was 8 years-old. So I guess I take it for granted and think it is better because that is my experience. When I was 9 years-old I would walk a batter just to pick them off with the pickoff move that I had worked on with my dad since I was 7. The kids who play in the LLWS are good, but I don't think they would beat a lot of the travel teams if they were to play the 50/70 distances. Really think that having 12 year-olds pitch from 46 feet, then pitching from 60 feet in school ball in middle school is ridiculous. Interesting enough, in the small rural area only 1.5 hours NE to Williamsport, PA, there was nothing other than LL as a form of organized youth baseball. Pretty typical for that area. It probably did stunt the growth a bit as a pitcher b/c I didn't utilize a pickoff move until I was 13. I worked on one with my Pops as well. However, I didn't have that rough of a time of transition, but I can see where others may have been behind, but then again, that was everybody in that area, so we didn't know any different.
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Post by BTB07 on Aug 19, 2009 9:25:35 GMT -5
That is interesting Toph, I guess my opinion is mainly based on playing travel baseball from the time I was 8, and coaching travel baseball for the last 2 years.
Did you play school ball in Middle School after playing LL? If so what were the dimensions (I played 60/90 in 7th grade).
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Post by tophb21 on Aug 19, 2009 9:41:46 GMT -5
That is interesting Toph, I guess my opinion is mainly based on playing travel baseball from the time I was 8, and coaching travel baseball for the last 2 years. Did you play school ball in Middle School after playing LL? If so what were the dimensions (I played 60/90 in 7th grade). Same dimensions for school ball and for what we called Teener League. Basically the next step up from LL for kids 13-15. Then went to American Legion from there.
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Post by BTB07 on Aug 19, 2009 18:57:04 GMT -5
That is interesting Toph, I guess my opinion is mainly based on playing travel baseball from the time I was 8, and coaching travel baseball for the last 2 years. Did you play school ball in Middle School after playing LL? If so what were the dimensions (I played 60/90 in 7th grade). Same dimensions for school ball and for what we called Teener League. Basically the next step up from LL for kids 13-15. Then went to American Legion from there. Got ya. In my area there is some Little League being played, but the school ball (Middle School and High School) play 60 feet/90 feet. That is probably a big reason why I see such a problem with the transition.
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Post by tophb21 on Aug 23, 2009 11:45:43 GMT -5
Well BTB, I must say I just flipped onto one of the LLWS games and I saw something that you would have enjoyed. 3 straight bunts in an inning. The lead off batter bunted for a legit single (granted the distance on the bases may play a factor), then the next batter, a lefty, laid down a beautiful bunt that he beat out. The next batter put down a decent sacrafice, but they made a play to get the runner at second. It was followed by an infield grounder that the defense was not able to get the kid at the plate. Pretty fundamentally sound for these kids.
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Post by BTB07 on Aug 23, 2009 22:03:15 GMT -5
Well BTB, I must say I just flipped onto one of the LLWS games and I saw something that you would have enjoyed. 3 straight bunts in an inning. The lead off batter bunted for a legit single (granted the distance on the bases may play a factor), then the next batter, a lefty, laid down a beautiful bunt that he beat out. The next batter put down a decent sacrafice, but they made a play to get the runner at second. It was followed by an infield grounder that the defense was not able to get the kid at the plate. Pretty fundamentally sound for these kids. Yep I saw that today. I only wish I would see it a little more often. With those dimensions a good bunt is nearly indefensible. It is not utilized that often because of the relative ease that the kids hit HRs. They look like they are having a great time, and are certainly good ball players. I have enjoyed watching it (as I get more 'used' to the dimensions, and the way the game is normally played). I didn't mean it to knock the kids (as some of them play travel as well). Something that bothers me, is the number of pitchers that they use (doesn't seem like enough kids pitch on these teams). After the top 3 kids they say 'they are getting deep in the staff'. It is great that they are on TV though, they look to be having the time of their lives. Certainly won't forget it.
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Post by BTB07 on Aug 25, 2009 19:34:11 GMT -5
I have seen more bunting which is right up my alley!
It is awesome that the kids get to be on television, but I think the older kids should have some modified rules (closer to high school). It makes the game more enjoyable for me to watch.
I feel a certain lack of strategy (although getting all the players an AB and an inning in the field is tough). I mean like game situations (ex. hit and run, stealing, etc.).
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Post by badgersballers on Aug 25, 2009 20:44:34 GMT -5
I think it'll be Curacao, and California in the Finals with Curacao winning.
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Post by MIZ-SIU on Aug 25, 2009 21:40:08 GMT -5
I think it'll be Curacao, and California in the Finals with Curacao winning. I would agree with that except with California winning
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Post by 96Ag on Aug 25, 2009 21:56:33 GMT -5
The San Antonio team has been playing pretty good.
I have a friend whose nephew is on the team.....kinda cool.
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Post by badgersballers on Aug 25, 2009 22:00:14 GMT -5
I think it'll be Curacao, and California in the Finals with Curacao winning. I would agree with that except with California winning California just lost according to wikipedia. I still think they'll beat SA in their 2nd try. IMO the Semi's will be Japan-Curacao(The game between them was really exciting), and SA and Cali. I'm not sold on Mexico even though they're undefeated.
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Post by BTB07 on Aug 26, 2009 17:11:26 GMT -5
I like the San Antonio team, they are 'scrappy'. I think Curaco is going to be a really tough out. The California team can bop with the best of them, and that Ramirez kid has some serious talent.
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