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Post by geauxtigerfan on Nov 12, 2023 12:35:01 GMT -5
LSU had a non targeting call last week when Jayden Daniels was knocked out of the game.
This week they had a targeting call go against them when DB Sam was called for targeting. Sam was going down to tackle the runner and his helmet hit the shoulder pad. The officials said Sam had lowered his head. To me it was a very questionable call.
From Dandy Don's website:
"A week after SEC officials declined to call targeting on the controversial hit Jayden Daniels took from Alabama’s Dallas Turner, LSU safety Andre Sam was called for targeting when he tried to tackle Florida running back Montrell Johnson in the second quarter. Sam lowered his helmet and hit Johnson on his left shoulder, and officials justified the penalty by saying he led with the crown of his helmet, even though there was no head-to-head contact. Coach Kelly said after the game that Sam was just trying to make a tackle and that Turner was clearly trying to take Daniels out last week. And honestly, that’s how it appeared to me, too. If the objective of this rule is truly player safety, it’s hard to justify the way these calls were made on back-to-back weeks without muddying things up with semantics."
I have been bitching about the targeting calls since it was installed. I remember when Devon White was called for a targeting that was similar to the one not called last week on the hit to Jayden Daniels. Both calls benefited Bama. White after being tossed out against Miss State had to miss the first half the next week - guess who LSU was playing - Bama.
My point is somehow this has to be taken away from a judgement call. It would be nice if they could automate the call - develop some kind of software that could be made by a computer - some sort of AI.
Thoughts?
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Nov 16, 2023 10:55:25 GMT -5
‘That is tragic’: LSU coach Brian Kelly takes exception to process that led to targeting call on Andre Sam, but not against Jayden Daniels
It was determined by the SEC that LSU safety Andre Sam (14) was guilty of targeting on this play against Florida running back Montrell Johnson in the second quarter of Saturday's game at Tiger Stadium.
LSU football coach Brian Kelly said he was simply looking for an explanation.
A week after witnessing his quarterback Jayden Daniels get hit under his chin and driven forcibly to the ground by Alabama’s Dallas Turner which resulted only in a roughing-the-passing penalty, Kelly was taken aback midway through the second quarter of his team’s home game last Saturday with Florida.
Sixth-year safety Andre Sam was prepared to take on Florida running back Montrell Johnson who took a pass from quarterback Graham Mertz and was headed toward midfield.
The more Johnson moved up field, the more careful he became and began to recoil his body, leaving Sam with a diminishing target to take down for what was an 18-yard gain.
Instead of getting ready to play first down at Florida’s 45-yard line, the game was halted when the Southeastern Conference contacted officials at the game about the prospect of targeting by Sam on the play.
There was no flag on the play.
“That means there was no call on the field,” Kelly said during his weekly press conference on Tuesday. “They were buzzed that there may be a targeting on the field and that’s what stopped play.”
After a lengthy review, replay officials located in the conference’s office in Birmingham, Alabama determined that Sam was guilty of targeting against Johnson and was ejected for the remainder of the game.
Since the transgression took place in the first half of the game Sam is eligible to return and start in Saturday’s nonconference game against Georgia State at 7 p.m. in Tiger Stadium.
“Where my confusion was the week before (against Alabama) was that never an official under the hood on the sideline,” Kelly said. “I was confused. Why wasn’t it reviewed. They’ve subsequently said it was reviewed. My question is, ‘Why is it reviewed one way and not the other’? So, you don’t need the referee to review.
“I was confused as to the process of reviewing,” Kelly said. “In one instance there was a review without the referee involved and another review with the referee involved. I was asking for clarification as to what the process is.”
Florida maintained its drive at LSU’s 40 following the 15-yard targeting penalty and scored on Trevor Etienne’s 7-yard run at the 4:30 mark, reducing the Tigers’ lead to 17-14.
Daniels turned in the kind of historical performance – a FBS record 606 total yards and five touchdowns in a 52-35 victory – that made the call on Sam inconsequential, but Kelly didn’t see it that way.
It was obviously still an open wound that hadn’t healed for Kelly who saw his Daniels suffered a concussion at the hands of Turner who walked away with a 15-yard penalty for the personal foul but remain in the game because of the video review of the play didn’t rise to the level of targeting, Kelly said he was informed.
Daniels, whose team was trailing 35-28 at the time (Alabama went on to win 42-28), went into the team’s medical tent for evaluation early in the fourth quarter and didn’t return because of concussion protocol. He remained out of practice for two days last week for the concussion and was cleared on Thursday to play against Florida.
“When you have a situation like we did, where Jayden Daniels gets hit underneath the chin, driven to the ground and it doesn’t get reviewed,” Kelly said after the Florida game. “And then we have a replay like tonight which was a normal football play where a running back is lowering his shoulder, and we are trying to make a tackle. We’re not targeting. We’re not trying to lead with the helmet. We’re just trying to make a tackle and we throw a kid out of the game. That is tragic.
“We’re in a bad place right now,” Kelly continued. “And we need to stop and figure this out. Because there’s a lot of words I could use. But it’s tragic that we throw a kid out of the game because he was trying to play football. And whatever semantics, there’s going to be a great explanation about this. Oh, he used the crown of his helmet, or he did this. That guy (Turner) that hit Jayden Daniels was trying to knock him out. You can say whatever you want. But that’s what he was trying to do. Our guy was trying to make a tackle. So, everybody’s smart enough to figure that out. But we have two different outcomes. We got to figure it out.”
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Post by NCBulldawg on Nov 16, 2023 11:18:17 GMT -5
The officiating is beyond bad and pathetic, it is downright unprofessional. Amazing the penalties which are not called, and I mean obvious PF Facemasks, Holding, while others, which are so far from a penalty are getting called, marked off and play continues when "no penalty" is really discernible, as called, on the play. Needs to be a real upheaval by outside entities and try to force accountability. But, that is only my opinion.
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Post by nmerritt11 on Nov 16, 2023 11:49:52 GMT -5
The targeting on Shipley against NC State that was not called or even reviewed was beyond bad. Defenseless, leading with helmet, helmet to helmet...all the things
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2023 13:26:14 GMT -5
Oh lord, now you guys have done it.
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Post by Geaux Tigers on Nov 16, 2023 13:29:51 GMT -5
#14 for LSU was flagged for Targeting and disqualified.
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Nov 16, 2023 13:34:02 GMT -5
The biggest gripe that I have is the inconsistently in the targeting call. Humans are different so that would account for some of it. But most of the final determination comes from a central location. In the case of the SEC - from what I know - it goes to Birmingham. I am assuming that a team of officials look at the call and make the final determination. And they have the right to make a targeting call themselves if they think the on the field officials missed the call. I like Brian Kelly's statement. "“We’re in a bad place right now,” Kelly continued. “And we need to stop and figure this out. Because there’s a lot of words I could use. But it’s tragic that we throw a kid out of the game because he was trying to play football. And whatever semantics, there’s going to be a great explanation about this. Oh, he used the crown of his helmet, or he did this. That guy (Turner) that hit Jayden Daniels was trying to knock him out. You can say whatever you want. But that’s what he was trying to do. Our guy was trying to make a tackle. So, everybody’s smart enough to figure that out. But we have two different outcomes. We got to figure it out.”" Here's the tackle:
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Post by ghost on Nov 17, 2023 15:46:59 GMT -5
but i thought refs didn't make mistakes or play favorites.... ?
odd
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Post by bigdawgs on Nov 17, 2023 15:51:13 GMT -5
David has converted y'all.
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Nov 17, 2023 15:51:39 GMT -5
but i thought refs didn't make mistakes or play favorites.... ? odd They make mistakes, but not as often as you seem to think. And the targeting call seems to go all over the place.
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Post by ghost on Nov 17, 2023 16:23:07 GMT -5
but i thought refs didn't make mistakes or play favorites.... ? odd They make mistakes, but not as often as you seem to think. And the targeting call seems to go all over the place. oh its actually way MORE often than i think for even catch. the targeting rules are not as much alll over the place as you think.... it looks more scripted than anything. The fact that a targeting is missed is enough..... with "every play' under review.... plays are watched... and it is there job to simply look at plays... when 50,000 fans cringe on a hit its easy to review... when its not done, its a deliverable decision nOT to.... and there is the script. I'll test this... look at UCF @ TTU this week... TTU need the win fo to get to a bowl... their next game is vs Texas... if they had to get that win that would mean knowkinc g the big12 from the CFbPO.... uCF needs to win win of 2... with houston in the last game.. Houston would need to beat both OKst and UCF, so likely not going to beat OSU so that means they are out, and UCF can beat them to get to a bowl. ficnaiallly it is better for the BIG12 for TTU to win this week, and UCF win next week.... I would expect a couple of calls to go TTU's way this week. oddly against what i think happens most weeks. its now time for the Big12 to start to medal and get as many teams in the bowls as possible for $$$.... and even with Texas leaving, its their only shot at the CFbPO and big$$$ NOW, here is something interesting..... OR..... They go ahead and give UCF the win in LBK..... UCF bowl bound..... That opens Houston to beat UCF... Houston out still after loss to OKstate.... THEN they have TTU beats UT in ausitin (as the commishorer said they should earlier this year)...... Texas and OU both out of CFBPO... but all going bowling.... You could have OSU, UT, OU, and KSU all with 2 looses........ And the OSU has it over OU... UT has it over KSU.... OKst vs. KSU in the title game? unless of course ISU beats UT this week...and OKstat lose to Houston... then you get OU vs. KSU in the title... That would make more bowl teams than anything... We can tell by how the games are officiated...
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Vespula
Senator
"Panzerkönigin"
Posts: 3,819
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Post by Vespula on Nov 17, 2023 17:08:31 GMT -5
LSU had a non targeting call last week when Jayden Daniels was knocked out of the game. This week they had a targeting call go against them when DB Sam was called for targeting. Sam was going down to tackle the runner and his helmet hit the shoulder pad. The officials said Sam had lowered his head. To me it was a very questionable call. From Dandy Don's website: "A week after SEC officials declined to call targeting on the controversial hit Jayden Daniels took from Alabama’s Dallas Turner, LSU safety Andre Sam was called for targeting when he tried to tackle Florida running back Montrell Johnson in the second quarter. Sam lowered his helmet and hit Johnson on his left shoulder, and officials justified the penalty by saying he led with the crown of his helmet, even though there was no head-to-head contact. Coach Kelly said after the game that Sam was just trying to make a tackle and that Turner was clearly trying to take Daniels out last week. And honestly, that’s how it appeared to me, too. If the objective of this rule is truly player safety, it’s hard to justify the way these calls were made on back-to-back weeks without muddying things up with semantics." I have been bitching about the targeting calls since it was installed. I remember when Devon White was called for a targeting that was similar to the one not called last week on the hit to Jayden Daniels. Both calls benefited Bama. White after being tossed out against Miss State had to miss the first half the next week - guess who LSU was playing - Bama. My point is somehow this has to be taken away from a judgement call. It would be nice if they could automate the call - develop some kind of software that could be made by a computer - some sort of AI. Thoughts? Automating this is very easy and does not need AI. I was already using impact registration sensors and electronic recording 10 years ago, while developing more protective baseball and football helmets. Signal registration in each helmet for magnitude of impulse could be sent to a receiver and processed right on the field or in a booth. I would recommend a threshold level that corresponds to medically documented dangerous impact impulses and and set that level as the boundary to signal when a dangerous amount of instantaneous acceleration is detected and recorded.
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Nov 17, 2023 23:06:14 GMT -5
LSU had a non targeting call last week when Jayden Daniels was knocked out of the game. This week they had a targeting call go against them when DB Sam was called for targeting. Sam was going down to tackle the runner and his helmet hit the shoulder pad. The officials said Sam had lowered his head. To me it was a very questionable call. From Dandy Don's website: "A week after SEC officials declined to call targeting on the controversial hit Jayden Daniels took from Alabama’s Dallas Turner, LSU safety Andre Sam was called for targeting when he tried to tackle Florida running back Montrell Johnson in the second quarter. Sam lowered his helmet and hit Johnson on his left shoulder, and officials justified the penalty by saying he led with the crown of his helmet, even though there was no head-to-head contact. Coach Kelly said after the game that Sam was just trying to make a tackle and that Turner was clearly trying to take Daniels out last week. And honestly, that’s how it appeared to me, too. If the objective of this rule is truly player safety, it’s hard to justify the way these calls were made on back-to-back weeks without muddying things up with semantics." I have been bitching about the targeting calls since it was installed. I remember when Devon White was called for a targeting that was similar to the one not called last week on the hit to Jayden Daniels. Both calls benefited Bama. White after being tossed out against Miss State had to miss the first half the next week - guess who LSU was playing - Bama. My point is somehow this has to be taken away from a judgement call. It would be nice if they could automate the call - develop some kind of software that could be made by a computer - some sort of AI. Thoughts? Automating this is very easy and does not need AI. I was already using impact registration sensors and electronic recording 10 years ago, while developing more protective baseball and football helmets. Signal registration in each helmet for magnitude of impulse could be sent to a receiver and processed right on the field or in a booth. I would recommend a threshold level that corresponds to medically documented dangerous impact impulses and and set that level as the boundary to signal when a dangerous amount of instantaneous acceleration is detected and recorded. Love it Vessie - the professor comes to the rescue.
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Post by Wolferuns on Nov 18, 2023 16:47:20 GMT -5
The officiating is beyond bad and pathetic, it is downright unprofessional. Amazing the penalties which are not called, and I mean obvious PF Facemasks, Holding, while others, which are so far from a penalty are getting called, marked off and play continues when "no penalty" is really discernible, as called, on the play. Needs to be a real upheaval by outside entities and try to force accountability. But, that is only my opinion. Seems like the NCAA started checking boxes to hire officials instead of getting people that know the rules and know the game. The game is supposed to be shorter, but with all the call reviews they have to do it still takes north of 3 hours (especially after they add the extra commercials). Look at the bright side though DEI is going almost as strong in the striped shirts as it is in the Potato's white house.
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Targeting
Nov 18, 2023 18:12:59 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by tonythegator on Nov 18, 2023 18:12:59 GMT -5
The officiating is beyond bad and pathetic, it is downright unprofessional. Amazing the penalties which are not called, and I mean obvious PF Facemasks, Holding, while others, which are so far from a penalty are getting called, marked off and play continues when "no penalty" is really discernible, as called, on the play. Needs to be a real upheaval by outside entities and try to force accountability. But, that is only my opinion. Seems like the NCAA started checking boxes to hire officials instead of getting people that know the rules and know the game. The game is supposed to be shorter, but with all the call reviews they have to do it still takes north of 3 hours (especially after they add the extra commercials). Look at the bright side though DEI is going almost as strong in the striped shirts as it is in the Potato's white house. Rumor has it that they will be hiring a few members of Hamas for next season.
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