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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2023 2:08:58 GMT -5
It is generally assumed that if tOSU beats Michigan next week they will be the clear cut #1.
The rationale being that they would have wins over (current AP) #3 Michigan, #11 Penn State, and #17 Notre Dame, and "no school comes close to matching that".
So...why isn't the school that currently has wins over #6 Oregon, #15 Oregon State, and #16 Arizona currently ranked #1? No school comes close to matching that.
But hey, isn't having biased individuals pick playoff participants grand?
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Post by athens on Nov 20, 2023 7:32:07 GMT -5
Please let them rank the winner of that game ahead of Georgia. Yes that's bias but as long as you they're top 4 in the end who cares. Use it for motivation.
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Post by bigdawgs on Nov 20, 2023 7:36:28 GMT -5
If Ohio State beats Michigan, they then will play Iowa. Meanwhile Washington most likely to play Oregon, Georgia to play Bama, FSU to play Louisville and Texas to play Oklahoma. I know Iowa is 9-2, but we all know. Not sure how anyone can say Ohio State will have had toughest schedule. Going to be an interesting next two weeks with lots of drama.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2023 7:50:28 GMT -5
Please let them rank the winner of that game ahead of Georgia. Yes that's bias but as long as you they're top 4 in the end who cares. Use it for motivation. I am of the opinion that the P12 champ will get screwed. Again.
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Post by bigdawgs on Nov 20, 2023 7:55:11 GMT -5
Please let them rank the winner of that game ahead of Georgia. Yes that's bias but as long as you they're top 4 in the end who cares. Use it for motivation. I am of the opinion that the P12 champ will get screwed. Again. Barring an upset this weekend, I fully expect PAC champ to be in. Most people, even in SEC and B1G all agree PAC has been the best conference in CFB this year. I know Florida has lost 3 in a row, but an FSU without their star qb might be seriously challenged in the Swamp and that would hurt the ACC.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2023 8:05:48 GMT -5
I am of the opinion that the P12 champ will get screwed. Again. Barring an upset this weekend, I fully expect PAC champ to be in. Most people, even in SEC and B1G all agree PAC has been the best conference in CFB this year. I know Florida has lost 3 in a row, but an FSU without their star qb might be seriously challenged in the Swamp and that would hurt the ACC. Right. And yet here we are, with Washington at 11-0 in "the best conference in CFB this year", having gone on the road to play at a P5 OOC (not their fault Michigan State sucks this year), who will play 10 P5s *before* the CCG, and here they are (pending the new rankings) sitting in 5th. I can totally see them putting in both tOSU and Michigan, or, if Bama wins, twisting themselves into knots explaining why both UGA and Bama belong in the playoffs.
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Post by bigdawgs on Nov 20, 2023 8:16:54 GMT -5
A lot of that is because most of the nation has been far more impressed by Oregon vice the Huskies. They have been consistently the highest rated 1 loss team because many felt Oregon was the better team even in that loss. Unless both slip up this week, hard for me to buy that the winner won't get in. Also, barring total chaos, don't see two SEC or B1G teams in the show this year. The committee is going to want a team from PAC. They are also wanting not to have 2 teams from one conference if they have to. Remember, there has never been a non conference chosen for the playoff over a Power 5 champion with less than 2 losses.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2023 8:32:51 GMT -5
A lot of that is because most of the nation has been far more impressed by Oregon vice the Huskies. They have been consistently the highest rated 1 loss team because many felt Oregon was the better team even in that loss. Unless both slip up this week, hard for me to buy that the winner won't get in. Also, barring total chaos, don't see two SEC or B1G teams in the show this year. The committee is going to want a team from PAC. They are also wanting not to have 2 teams from one conference if they have to. Remember, there has never been a non conference chosen for the playoff over a Power 5 champion with less than 2 losses. I guess we will see, but: By any reasonable logic (assuming records are equal) the champion of "the best conference in football" should be ranked #1. Do you think for 1 minute that if Washington runs the table they will be the #1 seed?
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Post by Geaux Tigers on Nov 20, 2023 8:44:32 GMT -5
Dpb, you make some really good points here.
The only team(s) with with equal to or better schedules would be Texas and Alabama, both with one loss.
The fact that Mich, tOSU, and UGA have played a combined 6 teams in the top 30 and 2 teams in the top 10 while Washington has played 5 teams in the top 30 and 1 in the top 10 further proves your point.
Its a joke! Washington's ceiling is a #3 ranking which is insane giving the schedule Mich & UGA (tOSU to a lessor degree) have played.
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Post by dawgggystyle on Nov 20, 2023 9:40:41 GMT -5
I am of the opinion that the P12 champ will get screwed. Again. Barring an upset this weekend, I fully expect PAC champ to be in. Most people, even in SEC and B1G all agree PAC has been the best conference in CFB this year. I know Florida has lost 3 in a row, but an FSU without their star qb might be seriously challenged in the Swamp and that would hurt the ACC. Didnt the FL QB get hurt too, i think hes out this weekend, collarbone maybe
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Post by NCBulldawg on Nov 20, 2023 10:11:03 GMT -5
No matter what avenue one wants to travel down to piss on Georgia, here is the reality of this season at this point in time.
As of now, Georgia has played three currently ranked AP Top 25 teams, two hovering in and around top 10, and one at the bottom. They have beaten them by an average score of 40-16.
If, again...IF Georgia does happen to win, seeing as many a folk are seeing what happens if Georgia loses, they will have played the following teams the last seven weeks of the season/CCG/Playoffs:
Currently ranked Top 13 Missouri 30-21 Currently ranked Top 13 Ole Miss 52-17 Currently Ranked #25 Tennessee 38-10 Georgia Tech Currently Ranked Top 10 Alabama (If they beat Auburn will be higher) Currently Ranked Top 4 CFB PO contender Currently Ranked Top4 CFB PO contender
I will not have one issue, nor give one shit what anyone has to say about Georgia's schedule.
Now, all I can do is saddle up, turn on the game and cheer for my team and hoping they earn a victory on the field. They do that, beat all the teams ahead of them, and it will be one amazing season for this team!
Fingers crossed!!
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Post by bigdawgs on Nov 20, 2023 10:12:37 GMT -5
It is also irrelevant as long as in Top 4. Very few 1 seeds have won the playoff.
Next year the top 8 are all in the playoff. Takes the pressure off since these upcoming games will mean little other than pride.
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Post by NCBulldawg on Nov 20, 2023 10:16:48 GMT -5
Dpb, you make some really good points here. The only team(s) with with equal to or better schedules would be Texas and Alabama, both with one loss. The fact that Mich, tOSU, and UGA have played a combined 6 teams in the top 30 and 2 teams in the top 10 while Washington has played 5 teams in the top 30 and 1 in the top 10 further proves your point. Its a joke! Washington's ceiling is a #3 ranking which is insane giving the schedule Mich & UGA (tOSU to a lessor degree) have played. No matter what ranking Washington attains, if they make it into the PO at #1, #2 or #3, they will be playing more than likely in Pasadena at the Rose Bowl. What else matters here if they are #1, 2, or 3? Is there an advantage I am unaware of?
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Post by bigdawgs on Nov 20, 2023 10:36:45 GMT -5
I think Michigan is totally out if they lose. Committee looking for anything to remove that headache. Plus they will have only 1 Top 30 win.
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Nov 20, 2023 11:13:41 GMT -5
My question, If the PAC is that great - why did all the teams leave?
IMO, that fact seems to make the PAC as almost non existent in the eyes of many. So they tend to overlook Washington and Oregon.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2023 11:22:38 GMT -5
My question, If the PAC is that great - why did all the teams leave? IMO, that fact seems to make the PAC as almost non existent in the eyes of many. So they tend to overlook Washington and Oregon. The teams leaving has zero to do with the quality of play this season. It does, however, have tons to do with the very bias that is called out in the OP. Well, that and time zone issues that have screwed TV contracts, terrible management and some other things.
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Nov 20, 2023 11:38:56 GMT -5
My question, If the PAC is that great - why did all the teams leave? IMO, that fact seems to make the PAC as almost non existent in the eyes of many. So they tend to overlook Washington and Oregon. The teams leaving has zero to do with the quality of play this season. It does, however, have tons to do with the very bias that is called out in the OP. Well, that and time zone issues that have screwed TV contracts, terrible management and some other things. And human bias will be with us always. In my lifetime - USC and UCLA was the PAC 10. It seems to me that USC was always a top ranked team, or at least seemed to be. The USC - UCLA game at the end of the season was one of the big games of the year. USC was running back University. I was at Tiger Stadium in the late 70's watching a game between LSU and USC. LSU had the lead late in the game and USC with Charles White marched down the field and scored to win 17 to 12. Man there were a lot of disappointed Tiger fans. And I was one of them. But the Tigers got revenge a few years later in LA winning 23 to 3. UCLA always seemed to have a good QB. And Los Angles has always drawn more media attention than Eugene and Seattle. At least it seems that way to an old timer. That is what the golden years does to a person - like to look back to the past.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2023 11:46:59 GMT -5
The teams leaving has zero to do with the quality of play this season. It does, however, have tons to do with the very bias that is called out in the OP. Well, that and time zone issues that have screwed TV contracts, terrible management and some other things. And human bias will be with us always. Correct. Which can be eliminated by creating a (all) conference champs only playoff.
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Post by bigdawgs on Nov 20, 2023 12:02:45 GMT -5
And human bias will be with us always. Correct. Which can be eliminated by creating a (all) conference champs only playoff. Give us a Power 5 playoff with only champs and I would support. When we add other champs I am out of here because those would not remotely be the best 10 teams in America.
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Nov 20, 2023 14:23:13 GMT -5
After a couple of years of the 12 championship - Playoffs bump up to 20 teams with top 12 getting a bye. Takes 5 weeks to complete.
That's the disadvantage for football - can only play one game a week. Baseball and Basketball with the 64 plus playoffs - teams can play multiple games a week.
And baseball stretches it out to about 4 weeks. Regionals, Super Regionals and World Series.
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Post by tonythegator on Nov 20, 2023 14:54:13 GMT -5
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Post by Geaux Tigers on Nov 20, 2023 14:54:29 GMT -5
Dpb, you make some really good points here. The only team(s) with with equal to or better schedules would be Texas and Alabama, both with one loss. The fact that Mich, tOSU, and UGA have played a combined 6 teams in the top 30 and 2 teams in the top 10 while Washington has played 5 teams in the top 30 and 1 in the top 10 further proves your point. Its a joke! Washington's ceiling is a #3 ranking which is insane giving the schedule Mich & UGA (tOSU to a lessor degree) have played. No matter what ranking Washington attains, if they make it into the PO at #1, #2 or #3, they will be playing more than likely in Pasadena at the Rose Bowl. What else matters here if they are #1, 2, or 3? Is there an advantage I am unaware of? Did you read the Subject and OP? If Tulsa was undefeated, are they fighting for a #1 or #2 ranking, top 4? Top 15? Considering, they played more top 30 teams than Mich, same number of top 30 teams as tOSU, and the same number of Top 10's as Mich and one more top 10 team than UGA. SOS, similar to Mich & UGA. So, pls, where would you rank Tulsa if the were sitting at 11-0?
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Post by Geaux Tigers on Nov 20, 2023 14:58:23 GMT -5
I think Michigan is totally out if they lose. Committee looking for anything to remove that headache. Plus they will have only 1 Top 30 win. This is the point, they have only played 1 top 30 team all season, with one game left. Therefore, they should not even be in the conversation when you have a 1 loss Texas on the outside looking in, taking into consideration, UT has played SIX (6) top 30 and THREE (3) top 10 teams. How is this so hard for some to comprehend.
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Post by tonythegator on Nov 20, 2023 15:56:29 GMT -5
I think Michigan is totally out if they lose. Committee looking for anything to remove that headache. Plus they will have only 1 Top 30 win. This is the point, they have only played 1 top 30 team all season, with one game left. Therefore, they should not even be in the conversation when you have a 1 loss Texas on the outside looking in, taking into consideration, UT has played SIX (6) top 30 and THREE (3) top 10 teams. How is this so hard for some to comprehend. But, if Michigan wins, they should be crowned as National Champs. No need for a playoff.
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Post by bigdawgs on Nov 20, 2023 16:18:44 GMT -5
All systems have flaws. I would imagine that Sagarin's strength of schedule rankings are at least partially created by his ranking of teams.
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Post by NCBulldawg on Nov 20, 2023 16:21:02 GMT -5
No matter what ranking Washington attains, if they make it into the PO at #1, #2 or #3, they will be playing more than likely in Pasadena at the Rose Bowl. What else matters here if they are #1, 2, or 3? Is there an advantage I am unaware of? Did you read the Subject and OP? If Tulsa was undefeated, are they fighting for a #1 or #2 ranking, top 4? Top 15? Considering, they played more top 30 teams than Mich, same number of top 30 teams as tOSU, and the same number of Top 10's as Mich and one more top 10 team than UGA. SOS, similar to Mich & UGA. So, pls, where would you rank Tulsa if the were sitting at 11-0? GT...you are strictly using Sagarin ratings here, correct?
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Post by Geaux Tigers on Nov 20, 2023 18:38:11 GMT -5
Did you read the Subject and OP? If Tulsa was undefeated, are they fighting for a #1 or #2 ranking, top 4? Top 15? Considering, they played more top 30 teams than Mich, same number of top 30 teams as tOSU, and the same number of Top 10's as Mich and one more top 10 team than UGA. SOS, similar to Mich & UGA. So, pls, where would you rank Tulsa if the were sitting at 11-0? GT...you are strictly using Sagarin ratings here, correct? I am but don’t get caught up in who. If he applies his formula (right or wrong) equally to all teams then it’s relative. I’m sure you can find someone else that may different but the point will always remain the same.
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Post by NCBulldawg on Nov 20, 2023 20:12:27 GMT -5
GT...you are strictly using Sagarin ratings here, correct? I am but don’t get caught up in who. If he applies his formula (right or wrong) equally to all teams then it’s relative. I’m sure you can find someone else that may different but the point will always remain the same. Well, using Sagarin, here is the Texas breakdown of their six "Top 30" teams. Texas Top 30 #4 Alabama 10-1 #8 Kansas State 8-3 #10 Oklahoma 9-2 #25 TCU 5-6 #26 Iowa State 6-5 #29 Kansas 7-4 Wonder if you have an issue with a 5-6 team being ranked #25 in CFB? Iowa State at #26?
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Post by bigdawgs on Nov 20, 2023 21:58:24 GMT -5
I am but don’t get caught up in who. If he applies his formula (right or wrong) equally to all teams then it’s relative. I’m sure you can find someone else that may different but the point will always remain the same. Well, using Sagarin, here is the Texas breakdown of their six "Top 30" teams. Texas Top 30 #4 Alabama 10-1 #8 Kansas State 8-3 #10 Oklahoma 9-2 #25 TCU 5-6 #26 Iowa State 6-5 #29 Kansas 7-4 Wonder if you have an issue with a 5-6 team being ranked #25 in CFB? Iowa State? Meanwhile Mizzou, which beat Kansas State and has a better record is 22d FSU which is unbeaten and beat LSU by 3 touchdowns is 13th, and the Bayou Bengals with 3 losses is 10th Oregon which lost to unbeaten Washington is 5th and the team they lost to is 12th. Oregon has the 57th SOS and Washington the 25th SOS. Mizzou which beat Tennessee by 29 points and has 2 fewer losses is 22d while the 4 loss Vols are 17th. Ole Miss is 9-2 and beat Texas A&M who is 7-4 yet is ranked behind the Aggies. They are also behind 8-3 LSU. I am sure that he uses a formula that makes sense. Just not sure how he comes up with his ratings and subsequent strengths of schedules. I know home field is part of his equation. Some other SOS ratings are similar and others are considerably different. Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State are his #1, #2 and #6 teams. Neither SOS is that strong. Between them they have beaten Notre Dame and West Virginia and a bunch of Big Ten teams. Seems to me that the B1G is the weakest Power 5 conference in the country. Again, there is certainly some logic to all this because Sagarin has been around forever. Just don't fully understand his formula.
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Post by NCBulldawg on Nov 21, 2023 0:06:50 GMT -5
Well, using Sagarin, here is the Texas breakdown of their six "Top 30" teams. Texas Top 30 #4 Alabama 10-1 #8 Kansas State 8-3 #10 Oklahoma 9-2 #25 TCU 5-6 #26 Iowa State 6-5 #29 Kansas 7-4 Wonder if you have an issue with a 5-6 team being ranked #25 in CFB? Iowa State? Meanwhile Mizzou, which beat Kansas State and has a better record is 22d FSU which is unbeaten and beat LSU by 3 touchdowns is 13th, and the Bayou Bengals with 3 losses is 10th Oregon which lost to unbeaten Washington is 5th and the team they lost to is 12th. Oregon has the 57th SOS and Washington the 25th SOS. Mizzou which beat Tennessee by 29 points and has 2 fewer losses is 22d while the 4 loss Vols are 17th. Ole Miss is 9-2 and beat Texas A&M who is 7-4 yet is ranked behind the Aggies. They are also behind 8-3 LSU. I am sure that he uses a formula that makes sense. Just not sure how he comes up with his ratings and subsequent strengths of schedules. I know home field is part of his equation. Some other SOS ratings are similar and others are considerably different. Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State are his #1, #2 and #6 teams. Neither SOS is that strong. Between them they have beaten Notre Dame and West Virginia and a bunch of Big Ten teams. Seems to me that the B1G is the weakest Power 5 conference in the country. Again, there is certainly some logic to all this because Sagarin has been around forever. Just don't fully understand his formula. You ran with it more than I did, BD, but the point was to show how crazy some of his determinations are. Thanks for the further research and perspective on Sagarain's rankings as of today.
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