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Nov 26, 2023 20:48:38 GMT -5
pittnd likes this
Post by bigdawgs on Nov 26, 2023 20:48:38 GMT -5
We spend a LOT of time complaining about Polls and the human prejudices. This is this week's ESPN Power Index. I will leave it to anyone to say this is better than even the coach's poll:
Here's the latest Top 25 rankings from ESPN's Football Power Index on Sunday morning:
Ohio State Michigan Oregon Penn State Georgia Alabama Texas Oklahoma Florida State LSU Notre Dame Kansas State Washington Texas A&M Ole Miss Missouri Tennessee Oregon State Clemson SMU USC Louisville Arizona Miami Utah
Yes, Ohio State, despite losing to Michigan, remains No. 1 in the ESPN Football Power Index.
That surely won't be the case when the new College Football Playoff selection committee Top 25 rankings come out on Tuesday night, though.
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Post by Geaux Tigers on Nov 26, 2023 20:52:59 GMT -5
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Nov 26, 2023 23:11:21 GMT -5
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Post by pittnd on Nov 26, 2023 23:11:21 GMT -5
It is absolutely bait. It’s the ESPN speciality job of trying to get people to argue. I can’t begin to imagine the criteria used to come up with that.
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Nov 26, 2023 23:14:11 GMT -5
Post by bigdawgs on Nov 26, 2023 23:14:11 GMT -5
It is absolutely bait. It’s the ESPN speciality job of trying to get people to argue. I can’t begin to imagine the criteria used to come up with that. Oh yeah, I know it is bait. But it is not that different from some other computer ratings, to include Jeff Sagarin. Winning on the field means nothing.
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Nov 27, 2023 15:22:57 GMT -5
Post by geauxtigerfan on Nov 27, 2023 15:22:57 GMT -5
We spend a LOT of time complaining about Polls and the human prejudices. This is this week's ESPN Power Index. I will leave it to anyone to say this is better than even the coach's poll: Here's the latest Top 25 rankings from ESPN's Football Power Index on Sunday morning: Ohio State Michigan Oregon Penn State Georgia Alabama Texas Oklahoma Florida State LSU Notre Dame Kansas State Washington Texas A&M Ole Miss Missouri Tennessee Oregon State Clemson SMU USC Louisville Arizona Miami Utah Yes, Ohio State, despite losing to Michigan, remains No. 1 in the ESPN Football Power Index. That surely won't be the case when the new College Football Playoff selection committee Top 25 rankings come out on Tuesday night, though. What is in the water they are drinking at ESPN.
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Nov 27, 2023 18:09:01 GMT -5
Post by CFF on Nov 27, 2023 18:09:01 GMT -5
Colley uses winning and not names. colleyrankings.com/currank.htmlI know BD doesn't care for it, but it is free from the bias of the AP, Coaches, or CFP polls.
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Post by bigdawgs on Nov 27, 2023 18:35:45 GMT -5
Colley uses winning and not names. colleyrankings.com/currank.htmlI know BD doesn't care for it, but it is free from the bias of the AP, Coaches, or CFP polls. It is also free from facts. In 2012 Colley determined Notre Dame was National Champ. I think that the 2012 National title game might have been the most lopsided at least until last year. In 2016 Colley determined that Alabama was the National Champion. Might want to ask Clemson why they played the game that year. And of course, everybody's darling UCF was named their National Champion. His SOS also makes no sense. Other than that, it is pretty good.
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Nov 28, 2023 19:09:52 GMT -5
Post by CFF on Nov 28, 2023 19:09:52 GMT -5
Colley uses winning and not names. colleyrankings.com/currank.htmlI know BD doesn't care for it, but it is free from the bias of the AP, Coaches, or CFP polls. It is also free from facts. In 2012 Colley determined Notre Dame was National Champ. I think that the 2012 National title game might have been the most lopsided at least until last year. In 2016 Colley determined that Alabama was the National Champion. Might want to ask Clemson why they played the game that year. And of course, everybody's darling UCF was named their National Champion. His SOS also makes no sense. Other than that, it is pretty good. It is free from opinion, not facts. I don't care for any poll, but out of all of them, it has the most fact. Preseason polls (AP/Coaches)=opinion. Mid-season polls (AP/Coaches)= opinion. There is only the fact of wins and losses in Colley. Colley does not crown a NC, the poll ends the last week of the regular season, so your fact...not a fact at all. His SOS only uses wins and losses of every team on your schedule, not name brand or artificial rankings. Makes a lot more sense than having ND ranked in the preseason top ten every year. How long have we heard Texas is back? While they may be back this year, haven't we heard about it since like 2005 or so? This week, Colley has Texas ranked 4. Record of opponents is 81-63. Ohio State is the next one loss team with an opponent record of 76-68. It even breaks it down further in the matrix, it shows the current rank of every team they have played and allows comparison. There aren't moving targets of how Colley ranks teams. Much better than an opinion poll. Not as good as a conference champ only playoff, but better than an opinion.
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Nov 28, 2023 19:56:30 GMT -5
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Post by athens on Nov 28, 2023 19:56:30 GMT -5
It is also free from facts. In 2012 Colley determined Notre Dame was National Champ. I think that the 2012 National title game might have been the most lopsided at least until last year. In 2016 Colley determined that Alabama was the National Champion. Might want to ask Clemson why they played the game that year. And of course, everybody's darling UCF was named their National Champion. His SOS also makes no sense. Other than that, it is pretty good. It is free from opinion, not facts. I don't care for any poll, but out of all of them, it has the most fact. Preseason polls (AP/Coaches)=opinion. Mid-season polls (AP/Coaches)= opinion. There is only the fact of wins and losses in Colley. Colley does not crown a NC, the poll ends the last week of the regular season, so your fact...not a fact at all. His SOS only uses wins and losses of every team on your schedule, not name brand or artificial rankings. Makes a lot more sense than having ND ranked in the preseason top ten every year. How long have we heard Texas is back? While they may be back this year, haven't we heard about it since like 2005 or so? This week, Colley has Texas ranked 4. Record of opponents is 81-63. Ohio State is the next one loss team with an opponent record of 76-68. It even breaks it down further in the matrix, it shows the current rank of every team they have played and allows comparison. There aren't moving targets of how Colley ranks teams. Much better than an opinion poll. Not as good as a conference champ only playoff, but better than an opinion. If his poll ends after the regular season, and the team he ranks #1 gets destroyed in the national championship game, how can you have faith in the accuracy of his rankings?
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Nov 28, 2023 20:02:01 GMT -5
Post by CFF on Nov 28, 2023 20:02:01 GMT -5
It is free from opinion, not facts. I don't care for any poll, but out of all of them, it has the most fact. Preseason polls (AP/Coaches)=opinion. Mid-season polls (AP/Coaches)= opinion. There is only the fact of wins and losses in Colley. Colley does not crown a NC, the poll ends the last week of the regular season, so your fact...not a fact at all. His SOS only uses wins and losses of every team on your schedule, not name brand or artificial rankings. Makes a lot more sense than having ND ranked in the preseason top ten every year. How long have we heard Texas is back? While they may be back this year, haven't we heard about it since like 2005 or so? This week, Colley has Texas ranked 4. Record of opponents is 81-63. Ohio State is the next one loss team with an opponent record of 76-68. It even breaks it down further in the matrix, it shows the current rank of every team they have played and allows comparison. There aren't moving targets of how Colley ranks teams. Much better than an opinion poll. Not as good as a conference champ only playoff, but better than an opinion. If his poll ends after the regular season, and the team he ranks #1 gets destroyed in the national championship game, how can you have faith in the accuracy of his rankings? Who said I have faith in rankings? I just said it is better than an opinion poll. How many times have teams been destroyed in opinion poll selected games? It happens.
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Nov 28, 2023 20:07:04 GMT -5
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Post by bigdawgs on Nov 28, 2023 20:07:04 GMT -5
It is free from opinion, not facts. I don't care for any poll, but out of all of them, it has the most fact. Preseason polls (AP/Coaches)=opinion. Mid-season polls (AP/Coaches)= opinion. There is only the fact of wins and losses in Colley. Colley does not crown a NC, the poll ends the last week of the regular season, so your fact...not a fact at all. His SOS only uses wins and losses of every team on your schedule, not name brand or artificial rankings. Makes a lot more sense than having ND ranked in the preseason top ten every year. How long have we heard Texas is back? While they may be back this year, haven't we heard about it since like 2005 or so? This week, Colley has Texas ranked 4. Record of opponents is 81-63. Ohio State is the next one loss team with an opponent record of 76-68. It even breaks it down further in the matrix, it shows the current rank of every team they have played and allows comparison. There aren't moving targets of how Colley ranks teams. Much better than an opinion poll. Not as good as a conference champ only playoff, but better than an opinion. If his poll ends after the regular season, and the team he ranks #1 gets destroyed in the national championship game, how can you have faith in the accuracy of his rankings? Every poll has human opinion. His number one team in 2012 and 2018 got slaughtered. Comparing records of opponents that play in significantly different conferences is in itself a flaw. What better example this year than Iowa...when you have 7 crap teams, someone has to win.
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Nov 28, 2023 21:31:06 GMT -5
Post by CFF on Nov 28, 2023 21:31:06 GMT -5
If his poll ends after the regular season, and the team he ranks #1 gets destroyed in the national championship game, how can you have faith in the accuracy of his rankings? Every poll has human opinion. His number one team in 2012 and 2018 got slaughtered. Comparing records of opponents that play in significantly different conferences is in itself a flaw. What better example this year than Georgia...when you have 7 crap teams, someone has to win. FIFY...I do think Georgia is one of the best teams in the country this year, but the schedule has a bunch of crappy teams....similar to Iowa. I understand the schedule only applies when it is another team... Your rules...right? When a team plays 7 crappy teams, the schedule will eventually work itself out and there will be separation. Iowa is currently ranked at number 15, not number one. They are ranked lower because of the quality of their schedule. Counters every gripe you have had with it. I'm still not a fan of polls, but I must admit, this is better than the human polls.
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Nov 28, 2023 21:46:06 GMT -5
Post by bigdawgs on Nov 28, 2023 21:46:06 GMT -5
But you are in favor of 10 conference champions when even a blind squirrel knows that they are not automatically the 10 best teams in the country. And in many cases we KNOW for fact that many of those champions have been routed by mid level and even lower level teams from other conferences. Those are facts, not polls.
Lets admit it. There is no way to have an absolute fair system with 130 plus teams. It simply does not work in any way, shape or fashion.
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Nov 29, 2023 1:41:53 GMT -5
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Post by Elapid on Nov 29, 2023 1:41:53 GMT -5
We spend a LOT of time complaining about Polls and the human prejudices. This is this week's ESPN Power Index. I will leave it to anyone to say this is better than even the coach's poll: Here's the latest Top 25 rankings from ESPN's Football Power Index on Sunday morning: Ohio State Michigan Oregon Penn State Georgia Alabama Texas Oklahoma Florida State LSU Notre Dame Kansas State Washington Texas A&M Ole Miss Missouri Tennessee Oregon State Clemson SMU USC Louisville Arizona Miami Utah Yes, Ohio State, despite losing to Michigan, remains No. 1 in the ESPN Football Power Index. That surely won't be the case when the new College Football Playoff selection committee Top 25 rankings come out on Tuesday night, though. What is in the water they are drinking at ESPN. Sounds like it might be lead.
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Nov 29, 2023 7:25:57 GMT -5
Post by CFF on Nov 29, 2023 7:25:57 GMT -5
But you are in favor of 10 conference champions when even a blind squirrel knows that they are not automatically the 10 best teams in the country. And in many cases we KNOW for fact that many of those champions have been routed by mid level and even lower level teams from other conferences. Those are facts, not polls. Lets admit it. There is no way to have an absolute fair system with 130 plus teams. It simply does not work in any way, shape or fashion. Lets admit that they have never had the opportunity. How can they recruit when they are constantly excluded? How do you KNOW so much? If a team is undefeated, how do you KNOW they would lose? Lets face it, we KNOW that the second place team in a conference isn't the best in the country. They already had a season to prove they were. Don't you want to make the regular season meaningful and quit handing out participation trophies to the second place patsies?
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Nov 29, 2023 7:57:43 GMT -5
Post by bigdawgs on Nov 29, 2023 7:57:43 GMT -5
You know it because they play each other. You know it because there are countless cases since 2014 when a Group of 5 conference champ has been clobbered by mid level Power 5 teams. We know that they aren't among to the top 5 teams. Ray Charles knows it. You know it. Hell, even your Colley Matrix knows it. Participation trophy.
But we can see it unfold on a mini scale starting next year. They won't all make it, but at least one will.
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Nov 29, 2023 18:01:53 GMT -5
Post by CFF on Nov 29, 2023 18:01:53 GMT -5
You know it because they play each other. You know it because there are countless cases since 2014 when a Group of 5 conference champ has been clobbered by mid level Power 5 teams. We know that they aren't among to the top 5 teams. Ray Charles knows it. You know it. Hell, even your Colley Matrix knows it. Participation trophy. But we can see it unfold on a mini scale starting next year. They won't all make it, but at least one will. And there are also countless cases where G5 teams beat the P5 teams. Not as much, they have not had the opportunity to build a program because they have been playing under a different set of rules. Integrity should mean something to you. This game currently lacks integrity. Every team that plays should play by the same rules. In baseball, the Pittsburgh Pirates start the season with an opportunity to win the World Series based upon their performance on the field. What chance does Liberty have? They have 2 undefeated seasons now...right? Zero chance, because of the opinion of someone that states the same bullshit you spouted above. Like the Pirates, they may not win it. The Pirates however, have the opportunity.
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Nov 29, 2023 18:24:14 GMT -5
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Post by bigdawgs on Nov 29, 2023 18:24:14 GMT -5
The answer is very simple. Create a division between the FBS and FCS. Then you would have a even playing field. Who is supposed to provide these schools the revenue to compete with an Ohio State. Ohio State makes money because people want to watch them play. Are you going to steal from them to give to the poor?
Pirate example is poor. Baseball doesn't provide them with a real chance. And they could if they wanted to... but unlike the NFL and NHL, there is zero incentive to provide balance. Conferences do share the wealth like the SEC. But even at that level there is growing resentment toward unnamed schools that take the money and put nothing into the sport that is the bread maker. Who is supposed to help these schools that are at a different level of monetary wealth?
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Nov 29, 2023 22:30:45 GMT -5
Post by CFF on Nov 29, 2023 22:30:45 GMT -5
The answer is very simple. Create a division between the FBS and FCS. Then you would have a even playing field. Who is supposed to provide these schools the revenue to compete with an Ohio State. Ohio State makes money because people want to watch them play. Are you going to steal from them to give to the poor? Pirate example is poor. Baseball doesn't provide them with a real chance. And they could if they wanted to... but unlike the NFL and NHL, there is zero incentive to provide balance. Conferences do share the wealth like the SEC. But even at that level there is growing resentment toward unnamed schools that take the money and put nothing into the sport that is the bread maker. Who is supposed to help these schools that are at a different level of monetary wealth? Not talking about wealth, talking about if Georgia has one loss on the season and Liberty goes undefeated who gets the chance? You will say Georgia and say SOS. Georgia has the same record as Washington currently. Washington's SOS is better than Georgia's. Who is the numnber one team? It is a moving target. Liberty could win all their regular season games 3 years in a row and much like UCF, never have a chance. Your examples of teams getting blown out is not a good one. The Big 12 has been blown out on several occasions. Do you apply the same standard to them?
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Nov 29, 2023 22:33:06 GMT -5
Post by CFF on Nov 29, 2023 22:33:06 GMT -5
Also, the Pirates would not be excluded if they had the best record in their division. They would not be excluded if they had a record sufficient to play in a wildcard game. What they do in the regular season determines the outcome of their season. Opinions are good for talk, not for selecting playoff participants.
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Nov 29, 2023 23:28:11 GMT -5
Post by bigdawgs on Nov 29, 2023 23:28:11 GMT -5
The answer is very simple. Create a division between the FBS and FCS. Then you would have a even playing field. Who is supposed to provide these schools the revenue to compete with an Ohio State. Ohio State makes money because people want to watch them play. Are you going to steal from them to give to the poor? Pirate example is poor. Baseball doesn't provide them with a real chance. And they could if they wanted to... but unlike the NFL and NHL, there is zero incentive to provide balance. Conferences do share the wealth like the SEC. But even at that level there is growing resentment toward unnamed schools that take the money and put nothing into the sport that is the bread maker. Who is supposed to help these schools that are at a different level of monetary wealth? Not talking about wealth, talking about if Georgia has one loss on the season and Liberty goes undefeated who gets the chance? You will say Georgia and say SOS. Georgia has the same record as Washington currently. Washington's SOS is better than Georgia's. Who is the numnber one team? It is a moving target. Liberty could win all their regular season games 3 years in a row and much like UCF, never have a chance. Your examples of teams getting blown out is not a good one. The Big 12 has been blown out on several occasions. Do you apply the same standard to them? I am talking about being blown out in the regular season by mid to bad level Power 5 teams. You cannot talk about Power 5 teams playing weak schedules and then right around and say it doesn't matter for the Group of 5 team. All conferences are not created equal. And no, it doesn't mean that one is always the best. That changes. Again, what is your solution to having these non Power 5 teams get better. Inviting those 5 champions to the slaughter does not help them or their cause. I want to know how you propose to even the playing field, other than some ridiculous 10 champions that you and I and everyone else knows has nothing to do with determining the best team. So what is the fix? I am all ears.
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Nov 30, 2023 7:12:34 GMT -5
Post by CFF on Nov 30, 2023 7:12:34 GMT -5
Not talking about wealth, talking about if Georgia has one loss on the season and Liberty goes undefeated who gets the chance? You will say Georgia and say SOS. Georgia has the same record as Washington currently. Washington's SOS is better than Georgia's. Who is the numnber one team? It is a moving target. Liberty could win all their regular season games 3 years in a row and much like UCF, never have a chance. Your examples of teams getting blown out is not a good one. The Big 12 has been blown out on several occasions. Do you apply the same standard to them? I am talking about being blown out in the regular season by mid to bad level Power 5 teams. You cannot talk about Power 5 teams playing weak schedules and then right around and say it doesn't matter for the Group of 5 team. All conferences are not created equal. And no, it doesn't mean that one is always the best. That changes. Again, what is your solution to having these non Power 5 teams get better. Inviting those 5 champions to the slaughter does not help them or their cause. I want to know how you propose to even the playing field, other than some ridiculous 10 champions that you and I and everyone else knows has nothing to do with determining the best team. So what is the fix? I am all ears. New Mexico State / Auburn. USF vs Alabama wasn't the blowout everyone expected. Imagine if they had a few years to play by the same rules to be more competitive. I seem to remember a Boise State team coming to Georgia and beating them in a "neutral" site game in name only. Same team didn't have a chance at a NC. Your logic has merit, but it is also filled with holes. No conference is equal, no team is equal, no schedule is equal. Should the opportunity not be equal? I have provided a path to fix the game for years now, you aren't all ears.
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Nov 30, 2023 8:07:33 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2023 8:07:33 GMT -5
I am talking about being blown out in the regular season by mid to bad level Power 5 teams. You cannot talk about Power 5 teams playing weak schedules and then right around and say it doesn't matter for the Group of 5 team. All conferences are not created equal. And no, it doesn't mean that one is always the best. That changes. Again, what is your solution to having these non Power 5 teams get better. Inviting those 5 champions to the slaughter does not help them or their cause. I want to know how you propose to even the playing field, other than some ridiculous 10 champions that you and I and everyone else knows has nothing to do with determining the best team. So what is the fix? I am all ears. New Mexico State / Auburn. USF vs Alabama wasn't the blowout everyone expected. Imagine if they had a few years to play by the same rules to be more competitive. I seem to remember a Boise State team coming to Georgia and beating them in a "neutral" site game in name only. Same team didn't have a chance at a NC. Your logic has merit, but it is also filled with holes. No conference is equal, no team is equal, no schedule is equal. Should the opportunity not be equal? I have provided a path to fix the game for years now, you aren't all ears. Don't forget UCF beating the same Auburn team that beat *both* of the national championship game participants.
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Nov 30, 2023 8:19:58 GMT -5
Post by bigdawgs on Nov 30, 2023 8:19:58 GMT -5
Just checking, do bowl games count when it serves the purpose or do they not count because we all know that "Bowel" games are exhibition games? I'll hang up and wait.
While we are mulling that lets look at the 10 teams that would have qualified for the 10 team, champions only playoff:
With your 10 team playoff, these are 10 of the teams that would compete for 5 slots in the non power 5:
Tulane 1 Power 5 played, 1 loss to Ole Miss by 17 SMU 2 Power 5 played, loss to OU by 17, loss to TCU by 17
Liberty 0 Power 5 played N.M. State 1 Power 5 played 1 win over Auburn by 21
Miami Oh 2 Power 5 played 1 win over Cincinnati by 7; loss to Miami Fl by 35 Toledo 1 Power 5 played 1 loss to Illinois 7
Boise St 2 Power 5 played 1 loss to Washington by 36; 1 loss to UCF by 2 S. Jose 2 Power 5 played 1 loss to USC by 28; loss to Oregon St by 25
J. Madison 1 Power 5 played 1 win over UVA by 3 Troy 1 Power 5 played 1 loss to K.State by 29
If we believe these are among the best 10 teams in college football, I am all for it. Not sure how many fans will tune in, but that should not matter.
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Nov 30, 2023 8:30:01 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2023 8:30:01 GMT -5
Just checking, do bowl games count when it serves the purpose or do they not count because we all know that "Bowel" games are exhibition games? I'll hang up and wait. While we are mulling that lets look at the 10 teams that would have qualified for the 10 team, champions only playoff: With your 10 team playoff, these are 10 of the teams that would compete for 5 slots in the non power 5: Tulane 1 Power 5 played, 1 loss to Ole Miss by 17 SMU 2 Power 5 played, loss to OU by 17, loss to TCU by 17 Liberty 0 Power 5 played N.M. State 1 Power 5 played 1 win over Auburn by 21 Miami Oh 2 Power 5 played 1 win over Cincinnati by 7; loss to Miami Fl by 35 Toledo 1 Power 5 played 1 loss to Illinois 7 Boise St 2 Power 5 played 1 loss to Washington by 36; 1 loss to UCF by 2 S. Jose 2 Power 5 played 1 loss to USC by 28; loss to Oregon St by 25 J. Madison 1 Power 5 played 1 win over UVA by 3 Troy 1 Power 5 played 1 loss to K.State by 29 If we believe these are among the best 10 teams in college football, I am all for it. Not sure how many fans will tune in, but that should not matter. In the absence of any kind of balanced scheduling, how can you tell who the best team is without letting them actually play? And for your next statement of "it's easy to get up for a 1 game season", well that hasn't held tOSU and Michigan back.
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Nov 30, 2023 8:32:07 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2023 8:32:07 GMT -5
By the way, fwiw, that Tulane loss was without their starting QB.
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Nov 30, 2023 8:33:31 GMT -5
Post by bigdawgs on Nov 30, 2023 8:33:31 GMT -5
I can absolutely agree you can't be sure who the best team/teams in the country are unless they play. I can also say with 99% certainty who are not the best teams in the country.
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Nov 30, 2023 8:36:50 GMT -5
Post by Geaux Tigers on Nov 30, 2023 8:36:50 GMT -5
By the way, fwiw, that Tulane loss was without their starting QB. Tulane/Ole Miss was a actually a 3 pernt game with 4 min left.
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Nov 30, 2023 8:39:35 GMT -5
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Post by Geaux Tigers on Nov 30, 2023 8:39:35 GMT -5
I can absolutely agree you can't be sure who the best team/teams in the country are unless they play. I can also say with 99% certainty who are not the best teams in the country. BD, no you cant and you've already proven you can't when You claimed UGA was the best team even though they couldn't even win their conference. Would UCF had gotten the same chance if they would have loss their conference?
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Nov 30, 2023 8:54:01 GMT -5
Post by bigdawgs on Nov 30, 2023 8:54:01 GMT -5
I can absolutely agree you can't be sure who the best team/teams in the country are unless they play. I can also say with 99% certainty who are not the best teams in the country. BD, no you cant and you've already proven you can't when You claimed UGA was the best team even though they couldn't even win their conference. Would UCF had gotten the same chance if they would have loss their conference? Ohio State, Alabama and Georgia only made the playoff in those years because they lost 1 game and no other major conference had a champion with less than 2 losses. That is the system we have and all the conferences and schools agreed to. I would always have been happy to only have champions, but legitimate champions. As far as Tulane not having their quarterback, is that the first time a team has played without one of their stars? Where was the game played? Again, what is the purpose of this or any other playoff scenario? I thought it was to determine the best team. If we truly believe that Miami of Ohio is one of those teams, then go for it. If it is about the fact that many of these non Power 5 teams don't have the resources that Ohio State or USC or Georgia or LSU have, then how do we address that?
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