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Post by CFF on Feb 2, 2024 18:03:30 GMT -5
Well, I am surprised that you are surprised. Is the American way of life now to support scamming victims??? The guy is a bum. The cops were more than gentlemen. They were more polite than I would have been. According to the law, you would have been breaking it. Kudos to the cops for keeping their cool in a situation they may not have been too happy with. IMO, police work is more difficult today than it was in the wild west.
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Post by tonythegator on Feb 2, 2024 18:05:07 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, I looked up whether panhandling was illegal in Alabama. It turns out that it is no longer illegal. Click on the link for that article. As for what the police should have done, the question of what does the law say should be asked. As above my first question would have been about panhandling, to which it isn't. He was on public property and not breaking any laws that were mentioned, so asking for ID would not be warranted in the state of Alabama. Alabama recognizes "Stop and Identify" as do 22 other states, therefore unless a crime was suspected of being committed, and the other criteria not met, the police do not have the authority to ask for name and ID. Opinion 1- "Stop and Identify" laws keep police from doing their jobs. Opinion 2- A few more crimes would be solved and illegal immigration slowed if they did not exist. Opinion 3- With these laws in place, I am wondering how police can do a insurance or DUI/DWI roadblock without previously suspecting the driver. I don't drink, but question the legality of these actions. License and insurance please... For those that love to turn everything around, I am not in favor of changing that, just questioning the legality. Welcome to Nazi Germany. Can I see your papers, please?
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Post by MtnTiger on Feb 2, 2024 18:05:16 GMT -5
Well, I am surprised that you are surprised. Is the American way of life now to support scamming victims??? The guy is a bum. The cops were more than gentlemen. They were more polite than I would have been. BD I think you are mistaken about what this really was. He wasn’t panhandling. He was doing this to see what would happen and what the police would do when they were inevitably called on this guy.
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Post by CFF on Feb 2, 2024 18:08:54 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, I looked up whether panhandling was illegal in Alabama. It turns out that it is no longer illegal. Click on the link for that article. As for what the police should have done, the question of what does the law say should be asked. As above my first question would have been about panhandling, to which it isn't. He was on public property and not breaking any laws that were mentioned, so asking for ID would not be warranted in the state of Alabama. Alabama recognizes "Stop and Identify" as do 22 other states, therefore unless a crime was suspected of being committed, and the other criteria not met, the police do not have the authority to ask for name and ID. Opinion 1- "Stop and Identify" laws keep police from doing their jobs. Opinion 2- A few more crimes would be solved and illegal immigration slowed if they did not exist. Opinion 3- With these laws in place, I am wondering how police can do a insurance or DUI/DWI roadblock without previously suspecting the driver. I don't drink, but question the legality of these actions. License and insurance please... For those that love to turn everything around, I am not in favor of changing that, just questioning the legality. Welcome to Nazi Germany. Can I see your papers, please? Quite a ways away from Nazi Germany. Where are the concentration camps? Jews, and any other nationality for that matter are still roaming free. There is still free speech. So what if I have to show ID.
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Post by CFF on Feb 2, 2024 18:10:04 GMT -5
I still have my guns too.
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Post by tonythegator on Feb 2, 2024 18:12:20 GMT -5
Welcome to Nazi Germany. Can I see your papers, please? Quite a ways away from Nazi Germany. Where are the concentration camps? Jews, and any other nationality for that matter are still roaming free. There is still free speech. So what if I have to show ID. It's called the Fourth Amendment. You do know and respect the Constitution. Right?
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Post by CFF on Feb 2, 2024 18:15:53 GMT -5
Quite a ways away from Nazi Germany. Where are the concentration camps? Jews, and any other nationality for that matter are still roaming free. There is still free speech. So what if I have to show ID. It's called the Fourth Amendment. You do know and respect the Constitution. Right? I do respect the Constitution. Where does it say that you can't check ID? Applying that to this situation would be vague at best.
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Post by tonythegator on Feb 2, 2024 18:26:51 GMT -5
Wow. Learning a lot about our military guys here.
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Post by bigdawgs on Feb 2, 2024 18:33:51 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, I looked up whether panhandling was illegal in Alabama. It turns out that it is no longer illegal. Click on the link for that article. As for what the police should have done, the question of what does the law say should be asked. As above my first question would have been about panhandling, to which it isn't. He was on public property and not breaking any laws that were mentioned, so asking for ID would not be warranted in the state of Alabama. Alabama recognizes "Stop and Identify" as do 22 other states, therefore unless a crime was suspected of being committed, and the other criteria not met, the police do not have the authority to ask for name and ID. Opinion 1- "Stop and Identify" laws keep police from doing their jobs. Opinion 2- A few more crimes would be solved and illegal immigration slowed if they did not exist. Opinion 3- With these laws in place, I am wondering how police can do a insurance or DUI/DWI roadblock without previously suspecting the driver. I don't drink, but question the legality of these actions. License and insurance please... For those that love to turn everything around, I am not in favor of changing that, just questioning the legality. Welcome to Nazi Germany. Can I see your papers, please? Utterly absurd comparison. Not even remotely the same. If they had dragged him into the police station and clubbed him along the way, then we could start talking this.
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Post by tonythegator on Feb 2, 2024 18:40:26 GMT -5
Welcome to Nazi Germany. Can I see your papers, please? Utterly absurd comparison. Not even remotely the same. If they had dragged him into the police station and clubbed him along the way, then we could start talking this. So, do you think the police should just be able to walk up on anyone and demand ID?
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Post by CFF on Feb 2, 2024 18:44:13 GMT -5
Utterly absurd comparison. Not even remotely the same. If they had dragged him into the police station and clubbed him along the way, then we could start talking this. So, do you think the police should just be able to walk up on anyone and demand ID? That is probably the way any conversation should be started. Both the officer and person being questioned should be able to ask. What is next, no voter ID because it violates my 4th amendment rights?
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Post by bigdawgs on Feb 2, 2024 18:44:32 GMT -5
Utterly absurd comparison. Not even remotely the same. If they had dragged him into the police station and clubbed him along the way, then we could start talking this. So, do you think the police should just be able to walk up on anyone and demand ID? They didn't just walk up and demand ID. What bullshit. First of all, the police officers said that people had complained about panhandling. That is apparently what drove them down to investigate those complaints. If panhandling is legal in Alabama, fine the so be it. But they have an obligation to investigate. I guess some of you are fine with people being ripped off by con artists. That is what this is all about. The police did not wander down the street and find this guy out of nowhere and demand his ID. They didn't even demand it...they asked for it. He refused. Even by his set up video, they made zero aggressive moves toward this prick. He is a showman.
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Post by tonythegator on Feb 2, 2024 18:52:16 GMT -5
So, do you think the police should just be able to walk up on anyone and demand ID? They didn't just walk up and demand ID. What bullshit. First of all, the police officers said that people had complained about panhandling. That is apparently what drove them down to investigate those complaints. If panhandling is legal in Alabama, fine the so be it. But they have an obligation to investigate. I guess some of you are fine with people being ripped off by con artists. That is what this is all about. The police did not wander down the street and find this guy out of nowhere and demand his ID. They didn't even demand it...they asked for it. He refused. Even by his set up video, they made zero aggressive moves toward this prick. He is a showman. He threatened him with jail for not showing ID. Did you miss that? Regardless of this video, do you think the police should be able to just walk up and ask anyone for ID when they have no crime?
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Post by bigdawgs on Feb 2, 2024 18:55:44 GMT -5
They didn't just walk up and demand ID. What bullshit. First of all, the police officers said that people had complained about panhandling. That is apparently what drove them down to investigate those complaints. If panhandling is legal in Alabama, fine the so be it. But they have an obligation to investigate. I guess some of you are fine with people being ripped off by con artists. That is what this is all about. The police did not wander down the street and find this guy out of nowhere and demand his ID. They didn't even demand it...they asked for it. He refused. Even by his set up video, they made zero aggressive moves toward this prick. He is a showman. He threatened him with jail for not showing ID. Did you miss that? Regardless of this video, do you think the police should be able to just walk up and ask anyone for ID when they have no crime? They were alleged to have asked for money. In many states panhandling is illegal, or illegal in certain areas. If in Alabama it isn't then fine. They made a mistake. But I sure as hell want the police to be able to question someone if others have accused them of harassing them. Were they harassed? No clue and in this case probably not. But damn right I want police to check it out.
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Post by bigdawgs on Feb 2, 2024 18:57:04 GMT -5
Nazi Germany? After the last few weeks, I could use a laugh and that was a good one.
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Post by CFF on Feb 2, 2024 18:59:02 GMT -5
They didn't just walk up and demand ID. What bullshit. First of all, the police officers said that people had complained about panhandling. That is apparently what drove them down to investigate those complaints. If panhandling is legal in Alabama, fine the so be it. But they have an obligation to investigate. I guess some of you are fine with people being ripped off by con artists. That is what this is all about. The police did not wander down the street and find this guy out of nowhere and demand his ID. They didn't even demand it...they asked for it. He refused. Even by his set up video, they made zero aggressive moves toward this prick. He is a showman. He threatened him with jail for not showing ID. Did you miss that? Regardless of this video, do you think the police should be able to just walk up and ask anyone for ID when they have no crime? How do you know they have no crime if you don't know who they are? In old times, people would commit crimes and just move to avoid a hanging. There are far too many wanted criminals in our country and it is impossible to ask a law enforcement officer to memorize the description of every one. They run your car tag when you are traveling on the road for no reason, why not check your ID? I don't see freedom to mean freedom to break the law and get away with it because officers can't remember 330 million descriptions.
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Post by tonythegator on Feb 2, 2024 19:01:43 GMT -5
He threatened him with jail for not showing ID. Did you miss that? Regardless of this video, do you think the police should be able to just walk up and ask anyone for ID when they have no crime? They were alleged to have asked for money. In many states panhandling is illegal, or illegal in certain areas. If in Alabama it isn't then fine. They made a mistake. But I sure as hell want the police to be able to question someone if others have accused them of harassing them. Were they harassed? No clue and in this case probably not. But damn right I want police to check it out. Check it out. Fine. But ID should not be required unless there is a crime. And FTR, people lie all the time. And one more thing. The Supreme Court of the US has ruled that panhandling is a form of free speech.
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Post by tonythegator on Feb 2, 2024 19:12:04 GMT -5
He threatened him with jail for not showing ID. Did you miss that? Regardless of this video, do you think the police should be able to just walk up and ask anyone for ID when they have no crime? How do you know they have no crime if you don't know who they are? In old times, people would commit crimes and just move to avoid a hanging. There are far too many wanted criminals in our country and it is impossible to ask a law enforcement officer to memorize the description of every one. They run your car tag when you are traveling on the road for no reason, why not check your ID? I don't see freedom to mean freedom to break the law and get away with it because officers can't remember 330 million descriptions. Welcome to the land of the free everyone is a suspect.
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Post by CFF on Feb 2, 2024 19:36:30 GMT -5
How do you know they have no crime if you don't know who they are? In old times, people would commit crimes and just move to avoid a hanging. There are far too many wanted criminals in our country and it is impossible to ask a law enforcement officer to memorize the description of every one. They run your car tag when you are traveling on the road for no reason, why not check your ID? I don't see freedom to mean freedom to break the law and get away with it because officers can't remember 330 million descriptions. Welcome to the land of the free everyone is a suspect. How would you recommend, from a legal standpoint, that we help police to locate criminals with a warrant then? Should they have to catch them in the act of another crime? Not being a smart-ass, just wanting your perspective.
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Post by tonythegator on Feb 3, 2024 6:30:12 GMT -5
Welcome to the land of the free everyone is a suspect. How would you recommend, from a legal standpoint, that we help police to locate criminals with a warrant then? Should they have to catch them in the act of another crime? Not being a smart-ass, just wanting your perspective. I guess cops should just stop everyone on the street and see if they can find a crime. Right?
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Post by tonythegator on Feb 3, 2024 7:52:27 GMT -5
He threatened him with jail for not showing ID. Did you miss that? Regardless of this video, do you think the police should be able to just walk up and ask anyone for ID when they have no crime? They were alleged to have asked for money. In many states panhandling is illegal, or illegal in certain areas. If in Alabama it isn't then fine. They made a mistake. But I sure as hell want the police to be able to question someone if others have accused them of harassing them. Were they harassed? No clue and in this case probably not. But damn right I want police to check it out. Here's another one, BD. Just for you.
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Post by tonythegator on Feb 3, 2024 7:53:44 GMT -5
Is it asking too much of our public servants to respect and protect our Constitutional Rights?
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Post by bigdawgs on Feb 3, 2024 8:07:20 GMT -5
Now I see your point. The Gestapo in action.
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Post by tonythegator on Feb 3, 2024 8:26:45 GMT -5
Now I see your point. The Gestapo in action. Allow me to inform you that the guy holding the sign is a Vet also. He served in the Army. He is not homeless, and he doesn't ask for money. In fact, when the occasional person does offer to give him money, he doesn't accept it. He is from St Augustine FL, and travels all over to spread his message and stand up for our Constitutional Rights.
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Post by bigdawgs on Feb 3, 2024 8:43:27 GMT -5
Now I see your point. The Gestapo in action. Allow me to inform you that the guy holding the sign is a Vet also. He served in the Army. He is not homeless, and he doesn't ask for money. In fact, when the occasional person does offer to give him money, he doesn't accept it. He is from St Augustine FL, and travels all over to spread his message and stand up for our Constitutional Rights. First of all, I could care less if he is a Vet or not. That is irrelevant, other than the fact that he appears to be begging for money. He has used his free speech. Someone...some other person out there who also has rights, called the police for a reason. The police responded. They are doing their job. They ASKED, not demanded the guy for his name. They Discussed with the gentleman the issue and the victim here responded using his free speech. No one laid a hand on the guy. I think the guy with the body cam was fine. The cop who arrived just a bit later was more aggressive, but even he did nothing at all. If the police get a call that someone is panhandling and disturbing them, especially at the court house, failure to respond would have been irresponsible. It is obvious that this guy is doing these videos for publicity. That is fine and that is his right. Others have rights too. It is the duty of those guys to investigate. The complaint was that he was standing on the entrance to city hall. Had he been sitting on the bench with his sign, would anyone have called? This is purely intended to make the cops look bad and in today's America, the media eats that stuff up. The guy should be pushing instead to change the panhandling ordnances in the places he goes to. And please, stop with my service. I only bring it up when we are talking about foreign policy or my times deployed. My opinion on this stuff counts no more than any other person on this board.
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Post by bigdawgs on Feb 3, 2024 8:48:46 GMT -5
This guy won't give his name, which is perfectly right. Yet he has no problem putting the officer's name on the front of his video. He is calling out Officer Sparks specifically by doing so. What was the purpose of that line on the video other than to attack that specific police officer?
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Post by tonythegator on Feb 3, 2024 9:05:28 GMT -5
This guy won't give his name, which is perfectly right. Yet he has no problem putting the officer's name on the front of his video. He is calling out Officer Sparks specifically by doing so. What was the purpose of that line on the video other than to attack that specific police officer? Police officers are servants of the public. Most Police departments have a policy to identify themselves when asked by a member of that public. After all, the public pays their salaries.
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Post by tonythegator on Feb 3, 2024 9:11:39 GMT -5
Allow me to inform you that the guy holding the sign is a Vet also. He served in the Army. He is not homeless, and he doesn't ask for money. In fact, when the occasional person does offer to give him money, he doesn't accept it. He is from St Augustine FL, and travels all over to spread his message and stand up for our Constitutional Rights. First of all, I could care less if he is a Vet or not. That is irrelevant, other than the fact that he appears to be begging for money. He has used his free speech. Someone...some other person out there who also has rights, called the police for a reason. The police responded. They are doing their job. They ASKED, not demanded the guy for his name. They Discussed with the gentleman the issue and the victim here responded using his free speech. No one laid a hand on the guy. I think the guy with the body cam was fine. The cop who arrived just a bit later was more aggressive, but even he did nothing at all. If the police get a call that someone is panhandling and disturbing them, especially at the court house, failure to respond would have been irresponsible. It is obvious that this guy is doing these videos for publicity. That is fine and that is his right. Others have rights too. It is the duty of those guys to investigate. The complaint was that he was standing on the entrance to city hall. Had he been sitting on the bench with his sign, would anyone have called? This is purely intended to make the cops look bad and in today's America, the media eats that stuff up. The guy should be pushing instead to change the panhandling ordnances in the places he goes to. And please, stop with my service. I only bring it up when we are talking about foreign policy or my times deployed. My opinion on this stuff counts no more than any other person on this board. There is nothing showing that he blocked the steps of City Hall. Just because someone said so doesn't make it true. I'm sure they had security cameras watching. Perhaps, the cops could check the cameras before making accusations.
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Post by bigdawgs on Feb 3, 2024 10:02:27 GMT -5
The cops are responding to a call that someone made. I doubt they have the security cams in their vehicles while on patrol. This is totally silly. They did their job. When the city advised them to adjust, they did so. Yes, the police officer identified himself to the guy. Then the guy specifically placed his name on his video, thus portraying him as some guy who is threatening his First Amendment rights. This whole thing is bullshit and I think you know it. Go find someone else who agrees with you since that appears what you are looking for.
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Post by bigdawgs on Feb 3, 2024 10:03:40 GMT -5
Also, why is it on this thread and not on the politics one? That is what this is all about.
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