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Post by fiasco007 on Jun 17, 2009 6:07:38 GMT -5
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Post by fiasco007 on Jun 17, 2009 6:07:55 GMT -5
Does it matter?
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Post by athens on Jun 17, 2009 7:00:03 GMT -5
Yes and yes
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Post by Wolferuns on Jun 17, 2009 7:58:23 GMT -5
Well as long as the left wing America hating Liberals are in the majority in DC there are some things that you are garrinteed. 1. English will not be the Offical Langauge 2. Taxes will increase 3. Illegal immigration will not be addressed 4. Inflation will increase 5. Government will get into more of your personal business 6. Entitlements will increase
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Post by Bradimous1 on Jun 17, 2009 8:06:51 GMT -5
this is stupid... yeah, lets found a country on freedom, then change our minds... oh, and lets get a catholic government in place too. maybe the pope can just run the government from over in Rome. i18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/klinko82/Stupid football etc/Smileys/popcorn-1.gif[/img]
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BAmaMAn
Senator
RTR&MGB!!!
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Post by BAmaMAn on Jun 17, 2009 8:27:43 GMT -5
I find it astounding that this is even an issue. This is America (or at least it used to be). Our forefathers that founded this great country spoke English (at least an archaic form of it) and the rest of the world has made inroads into learning it so as to make it the universal language. Now, because we have people coming in that can't speak it and demand that they be accommodated in their own language, we are trying to make it a land of many languages? It's absurd. I can't think of one other country that even gives a thought to changing their national language, or having to justify it's position and usage.
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Post by athens on Jun 17, 2009 8:29:51 GMT -5
I find it astounding that this is even an issue. This is America (or at least it used to be). Our forefathers that founded this great country spoke English (at least an archaic form of it) and the rest of the world has made inroads into learning it so as to make it the universal language. Now, because we have people coming in that can't speak it and demand that they be accommodated in their own language, we are trying to make it a land of many languages? It's absurd. I can't think of one other country that even gives a thought to changing their national language, or having to justify it's position and usage. And not only that, for the last 200+ years people have come to the US and learned the language to acclimate. What makes these people any different?
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Post by Bradimous1 on Jun 17, 2009 8:36:43 GMT -5
I can't think of one other country that even gives a thought to changing their national language I agree... why should we change the fact that we don't have a national language... you brought up our forefathers... you know, the ones that founded this country to be the land of the free.
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Post by athens on Jun 17, 2009 8:42:42 GMT -5
I can't think of one other country that even gives a thought to changing their national language I agree... why should we change the fact that we don't have a national language... you brought up our forefathers... you know, the ones that founded this country to be the land of the free. Brad, no one's saying we should pull them out in the street and shoot them if we hear them speaking a different language. But I don't think it is unreasonable to expect them to be able to communicate in the language that the majority of the residents of the country speak. If I moved to Italy, I wouldn't expect everyone there to accomodate me by learning to speak English. I would take it upon myself to learn Italian. (Heck, I already know the most important stuff; lasagna, spaghetti, ravioli... ;D)
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Post by Bradimous1 on Jun 17, 2009 8:47:41 GMT -5
I agree... why should we change the fact that we don't have a national language... you brought up our forefathers... you know, the ones that founded this country to be the land of the free. Brad, no one's saying we should pull them out in the street and shoot them if we hear them speaking a different language. But I don't think it is unreasonable to expect them to be able to communicate in the language that the majority of the residents of the country speak. If I moved to Italy, I wouldn't expect everyone there to accomodate me by learning to speak English. I would take it upon myself to learn Italian. (Heck, I already know the most important stuff; lasagna, spaghetti, ravioli... ;D) you are using a country that was formed on the basis of the language compared to the united states that was formed on the basis of not having an official language or religion... I just have no clue why we would change that now. Why should the US become like every other country. does it hurt you (that is a general you, not just you athens) that they don't speak english. if someone doesn't speak english, I just don't bother with them.
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crimson2007
Senator
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Post by crimson2007 on Jun 17, 2009 8:50:48 GMT -5
If I am going to, illegally, immigrate to another country, I am going to learn that country's main language. As a matter of fact, I am going to try to learn a good bit of it before moving. And I am an egotistical American. This old song makes me happy. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx8qXTT6VAA
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2009 8:51:18 GMT -5
I agree... why should we change the fact that we don't have a national language... you brought up our forefathers... you know, the ones that founded this country to be the land of the free. Brad, no one's saying we should pull them out in the street and shoot them if we hear them speaking a different language. But I don't think it is unreasonable to expect them to be able to communicate in the language that the majority of the residents of the country speak. If I moved to Italy, I wouldn't expect everyone there to accomodate me by learning to speak English. I would take it upon myself to learn Italian. (Heck, I already know the most important stuff; lasagna, spaghetti, ravioli... ;D) Point #1 The only thing that a bill like this would change is making English the official language in government operations. Private businesses, homes, etc could still operate using any language they want. Point #2 Why should it matter anyway? What good will it do? This isn't being a smartass, I'd really like to know why this matters to you guys...
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Post by Bradimous1 on Jun 17, 2009 8:52:06 GMT -5
there are plenty of legal immigrants in this country that don't speak english... jes sayin
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BAmaMAn
Senator
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Post by BAmaMAn on Jun 17, 2009 8:53:01 GMT -5
I can't think of one other country that even gives a thought to changing their national language I agree... why should we change the fact that we don't have a national language... you brought up our forefathers... you know, the ones that founded this country to be the land of the free. We do have a national language. It's English and has been since this country was founded. Some things don't need a proclamation to be understood. Let me rephrase my earlier statement: I don't know of any other country that has had to issue a decree that their language is the official language of said country. I can only imagine what would happen if a group of Americans went to another country and demanded that they transform into a multilingual society.
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Post by Bradimous1 on Jun 17, 2009 8:55:34 GMT -5
We do have a national language. It's English and has been since this country was founded. this is a false statement... actually two of them. the united states of america does not have an official language.
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Post by Bradimous1 on Jun 17, 2009 8:58:38 GMT -5
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BAmaMAn
Senator
RTR&MGB!!!
Posts: 3,378
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Post by BAmaMAn on Jun 17, 2009 8:58:49 GMT -5
We do have a national language. It's English and has been since this country was founded. this is a false statement... actually two of them. the united states of america does not have an official language. Brad...if you're going to have a discussion on an issue, quit taking one sentence of a statement and using it out of context. That's what we have politicians for. ;D
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Post by athens on Jun 17, 2009 9:00:02 GMT -5
Brad, no one's saying we should pull them out in the street and shoot them if we hear them speaking a different language. But I don't think it is unreasonable to expect them to be able to communicate in the language that the majority of the residents of the country speak. If I moved to Italy, I wouldn't expect everyone there to accomodate me by learning to speak English. I would take it upon myself to learn Italian. (Heck, I already know the most important stuff; lasagna, spaghetti, ravioli... ;D) you are using a country that was formed on the basis of the language compared to the united states that was formed on the basis of not having an official language or religion... I just have no clue why we would change that now. Why should the US become like every other country. does it hurt you (that is a general you, not just you athens) that they don't speak english. if someone doesn't speak english, I just don't bother with them. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_ItalyThere you go Brad. There are a number of languages spoken in Italy. But Italian is still the official one. It "hurts" me when I have to stand in line behind someone at a government office and wait because they cannot communicate with the person behind the counter. It "hurts" my pocketbook when the government has to print multiple versions of all documents and booklets into different languages. Just how many languages should we translate everything into? Should we do all the dialects of India? How about the different versions of Chinese? All the European countries? Where does it stop?
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Post by bigdawgs on Jun 17, 2009 9:02:20 GMT -5
It matters not. To accomplish anything in the United States you are going to have to speak English. It is a fact and those who do will have a huge leg up.
I am against legislating that private companies cannot have bi lingual or multi lingual instructions. I am a bit less tolerant of the government doing it, EXCEPT for emergency information.
The Italian example is fine, but having lived overseas for half my life, there are a ton of Americans who complain all the time if folks don't speak English or don't speak it well enough for their tastes.
There are a ton of issues that are more problematic than whether or not we make English the official language.
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Post by Bradimous1 on Jun 17, 2009 9:02:29 GMT -5
this is a false statement... actually two of them. the united states of america does not have an official language. Brad...if you're going to have a discussion on an issue, quit taking one sentence of a statement and using it out of context. That's what we have politicians for. ;D you are basing your argument on this statement... why can I not pull that out and let you know that it is wrong. I reread this and understand that it probably came off as being really short and that I was being an ass and I really didn't mean it that way. sorry about that.
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Post by athens on Jun 17, 2009 9:04:26 GMT -5
The Italian example is fine, but having lived overseas for half my life, there are a ton of Americans who complain all the time if folks don't speak English or don't speak it well enough for their tastes. And those people are just as idiotic...
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BAmaMAn
Senator
RTR&MGB!!!
Posts: 3,378
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Post by BAmaMAn on Jun 17, 2009 9:06:30 GMT -5
Brad...if you're going to have a discussion on an issue, quit taking one sentence of a statement and using it out of context. That's what we have politicians for. ;D you are basing your argument on this statement... why can I not pull that out and let you know that it is wrong. I reread this and understand that it probably came off as being really short and that I was being an ass and I really didn't mean it that way. sorry about that. Aw shucks, I know that, Brad. You're one of the 'good guys' in my book.
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Post by Bradimous1 on Jun 17, 2009 9:06:37 GMT -5
you are using a country that was formed on the basis of the language compared to the united states that was formed on the basis of not having an official language or religion... I just have no clue why we would change that now. Why should the US become like every other country. does it hurt you (that is a general you, not just you athens) that they don't speak english. if someone doesn't speak english, I just don't bother with them. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_ItalyThere you go Brad. There are a number of languages spoken in Italy. But Italian is still the official one. It "hurts" me when I have to stand in line behind someone at a government office and wait because they cannot communicate with the person behind the counter. It "hurts" my pocketbook when the government has to print multiple versions of all documents and booklets into different languages. Just how many languages should we translate everything into? Should we do all the dialects of India? How about the different versions of Chinese? All the European countries? Where does it stop? I understand your point... but the concept of this country is that anyone can come in (have to go through the proper measures) and have a life here... this country was formed as the land of opportunity and hope... that's what makes this country so unique.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2009 9:07:25 GMT -5
The Italian example is fine, but having lived overseas for half my life, there are a ton of Americans who complain all the time if folks don't speak English or don't speak it well enough for their tastes. And those people are just as idiotic... As is the average American...so what's your point?
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Post by athens on Jun 17, 2009 9:08:12 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_ItalyThere you go Brad. There are a number of languages spoken in Italy. But Italian is still the official one. It "hurts" me when I have to stand in line behind someone at a government office and wait because they cannot communicate with the person behind the counter. It "hurts" my pocketbook when the government has to print multiple versions of all documents and booklets into different languages. Just how many languages should we translate everything into? Should we do all the dialects of India? How about the different versions of Chinese? All the European countries? Where does it stop? I understand your point... but the concept of this country is that anyone can come in (have to go through the proper measures) and have a life here... this country was formed as the land of opportunity and hope... that's what makes this country so unique. Fine Brad. Then tell me how many languages all official government documents should be translated into. And will we have to have someone who speaks each of these languages employed at each government office? How do you make that determination? That's just what our overly bureaucratic system needs, more bureaucracy.
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Post by Bradimous1 on Jun 17, 2009 9:10:39 GMT -5
I understand your point... but the concept of this country is that anyone can come in (have to go through the proper measures) and have a life here... this country was formed as the land of opportunity and hope... that's what makes this country so unique. Fine Brad. Then tell me how many languages all official government documents should be translated into. How do you make that determination? I have no idea... I just have a problem with changing the concept of our country.
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Post by athens on Jun 17, 2009 9:12:44 GMT -5
Fine Brad. Then tell me how many languages all official government documents should be translated into. How do you make that determination? I have no idea... I just have a problem with changing the concept of our country. Too late for that, it happened years ago around the time of the Great Depression...
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Post by bigdawgs on Jun 17, 2009 9:14:53 GMT -5
Actually Italy is pretty progressive and smart on how they handle this issue. And no, when I mean progressive, I don't mean the political philosophy.
The South Tyrol (Sued Tirol) or Alto Adige was given to Italy following WWI. It is the region south of the Brenner Pass that used to belong to Austria and the province of Tirol. The population of the province is about 70% Tyrolian and about 5% Ladein. Prior to and immediately after WWII there was frequent violence in the region and the Carbineiri would never ride in less than pairs.
Subsequently the government decided to make German and Ladein official languages for the Province. All official signs are in Italien and German and in the small Ladein Area, it is in all three. As soon as you head south between Bozen/Bolzano heading on the Autostrada toward Verona the language changes to just Italian around Mezzocorona. The locals have their own German speaking TV stations, radio, newspaper and other products.
Compare this to the Basque area of Northern Spain and Southern France and it has worked remarkably well. Surprisingly, the Dolomite Alpine region is the biggest tourist maker in the country including Florence, Rome and Venice. It has the highest standard of living and it is a remarkably beautiful area in the Winter and Summer.
It is not the same situation as the US with numerous illegals, but it also demonstrates a flexibility that has worked.
And Athens, those Americans who insist on English spoken might be idiots, but they are all too common.
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crimson2007
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Post by crimson2007 on Jun 17, 2009 9:15:39 GMT -5
there are plenty of legal immigrants in this country that don't speak english... jes sayin I am aware of that as well, Brad. ;D
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Post by BTB07 on Jun 17, 2009 9:18:10 GMT -5
English is the unofficial, official language of the United States.
Companies should be able to have a 'press 1 for English and 2 for Spanish' option because it is necessary for their customers, and a smart business decision. Does that mean that people shouldn't learn to speak the language that nearly everyone in the country speaks? Of course not.
Does it mean that they should assimilate completely, and lose their language and culture completely? Nope.
I know a number of kids whose parents are recent immigrants and those kids speak their language at home, and English everywhere else. They are often needed to 'translate' and explain government documents and things to their parents.
Is it easy to succeed without knowing English in America? No. Does legislation need to be put in place to tell us this? Probably not. Should government documents be translated into other languages than English? Not in my opinion.
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