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Post by fiasco007 on Jun 17, 2009 16:34:21 GMT -5
I lived in Northern Italy, right in the dolemite alpini Mts. There was a big French influence, and many French would go there for summer vacation. That was maybe one of the worst encounters i had the whole time i was there. I'm not a typical American who would just stay on the easiest path. I did alot of extensive travels to many countries and places where people only seen Americans on tv.
I learned and spoke Italian, and a few times when I tryed talking to people, they would just throw their hands up and walk off. I wasnt offended or anything. it happens.
Eastern Europe was my fave cause even the people who didnt know one word in English, would come up and chat with you, buy you drinks and it would be alot of fun, and neither of us had a clue as to what we were saying.
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Post by fiasco007 on Jun 17, 2009 16:40:09 GMT -5
I did met alot of tolerant people, But to me. It seemed like there was no medium. I also walked up to a bar a few times in Germany, and had a couple of guys sitting there turn shooing me away saying, " Go away american." so i would have to go to the other end of the bar to order my drink.
I was also sitting in a bar with some friends and had a group of skin heads walk up to us and take a couple of our chairs. Then gave us a really shitty look while they were walking away. We came pretty close to fighting with them. but after talking for a few min they were actually pretty cool. I learned alot about them and the skin heads in Germany. I know your thinking, skin head=nazi. Not really. It was more of a political thing. One of the better spoken, american educated guys explained it to me to be like a social movemnet equated with Americans as being, "Blue Collar"
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Post by bigdawgs on Jun 17, 2009 16:45:10 GMT -5
Tater,
I have spent 27 or so years in Germany and I never met a skin head that I thought was cool. I guess it is possible, but I haven't found that to be the case.
Spent a ton of time in N. Italy Dolomites too, but the area I have spent most of my time in was Alto Adige and it had Austrian influence. All the way down to Caserme Ederle in Vicenza and down to Camp Darby in Livorno, my experiences with the Italians was great. The biggest French influence is west of Torino to the Alps and north toward Mont Blanc. I have spent very little time there so I must plead no experience in this part of the country.
Eastern Europeans tend to be very friendly because of the US role in the Cold War and the collapse of Soviet occupation.
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Post by Life's too short. on Jun 17, 2009 17:23:35 GMT -5
Tater, My experiences in Germany and especially Italy was totally different. Every Italian I met tried to speak a bit of English. In fact I tried Italian and they tried to respond in English. France was different, but generally in Germany and Italy I found the opposite to be true. BD is right. When I lived in Germany the people were very tolerant and understanding. We ended up trying to teach each other our languages and would sometimes get hysterical at some of the translations we came up with. But I was understanding too and tried to speak German as much as I could. They also seemed to get a degree of self-pride when they could answer me in English. It worked both ways for our mutual benefit. You're talking about the difference between conversations with a visitor and people demanding acceptance of their own language, and moving into areas and completely removing the local culture and replacing it with their own. I've been places in Germany, Switzerland, and Austria where locals would be down right PISSED if you walked into the local McDonald's for a Coke (only place to get an iced soft drink). Additionally, you're talking about acceptance and tolerance in a country no bigger than the size of Texas where every neighboring country has a different language, or at least a very different dialect (I speak German, but can't understand 5 words in Swiss German and I have a friend that is an Austrian native that can't understand any more Swiss German than I can). Austrian German I can get my meaning across using High German. My friend, Ewald, and I had a hell of a time getting the Swiss gondola operator outside of Zermatt to understand I needed a lift down the mountain after injuring my knee on a Matterhorn climb, and we couldn't understand him either. The fact the guy would never take his hands out of his pockets didn't help, no body language from the guy at all. We'd just about given up when a local stepped in and explained our situation.
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Post by bigdawgs on Jun 17, 2009 17:44:09 GMT -5
Sure it is hard to understand Schweitzer Deutsch because of the very strong dialect. It is actually not that different than Schwaebisch. My family is from Bavaria in southern Germany so I have no problem with Austrian German, but the Swiss is very difficult to understand on the TV or Radio. But every Swiss person I have dealt with face to face had no problem going to high German.
Platt Deutsch and Koelsch is also very difficult to understand, but most of the time when they converse directly with someone from another part of Germany or another country they will revert to high German.
Of course the Swiss have to deal with 4 official languages. But Sad you are correct that small countries can deal with it better. They have no choice but to learn at least one other language if not more.
But back to the original point, immigrants that come to America are going to have to learn English if they intend to get ahead in society. If they don't, they will be on the bottom rung and then they will be even more dependent on the state for support. And of course that is another whole issue.
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Post by Life's too short. on Jun 17, 2009 18:04:06 GMT -5
But every Swiss person I have dealt with face to face had no problem going to high German. That'd be because the official language of the Swiss education system is high German, regardless whether you're in a German, Italian, French, or Romansch speaking canton. I don't know what the issue was with this mountain man at the top of the gondola in Zermatt.
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Post by bigdawgs on Jun 17, 2009 18:49:45 GMT -5
Sad,
Have you ever skied Zermatt? The Klein Matterhorn Gondola Station is the highest in Europe and pretty cool. Skiing is ok, not great, but that view of the Matterhorn is awe inspiring.
Zermatt is really nice, but some of those folks are like the Schweizer version of Deliverance. ;D Remote even by Swiss standards.
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Post by Life's too short. on Jun 17, 2009 19:05:09 GMT -5
Sad, Have you ever skied Zermatt? The Klein Matterhorn Gondola Station is the highest in Europe and pretty cool. Skiing is ok, not great, but that view of the Matterhorn is awe inspiring. Zermatt is really nice, but some of those folks are like the Schweizer version of Deliverance. ;D Remote even by Swiss standards. There was some glacier skiing going on while I was there, but calling the conditions crappy would be an understatement. Considered doing it just to say I did it, but never got the time. Zermatt is amazing, especially the narrow gauge train you have to take to get there. Incredible views. I was shocked that even a town that small had a McDonald's.
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Post by bigdawgs on Jun 17, 2009 19:24:45 GMT -5
Had many a drunk at the Spahgetti Factory just up the street from the McDonalds. Almost got run over by one of those electric cars since my ears have been shot from tank gunnery. Being lit to the stars didn't help either. ;D And they have some awesome Raclette Restaurants in town too. The Gornergratbahn which takes you up near the Monte Rosa is pretty spectacular as well. It is not the best skiing area even when conditions are better. We used to go with the Mannheim Ski Club every Thanksgiving. Took our own Turkeys and the Hotel cooked them for us. If the conditions are ok you can ski down to Cervina, Italy. That is nice, but overall there are much better ski areas in the Alps. But no mountain is anywhere near as impressive.
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Post by Life's too short. on Jun 17, 2009 19:37:46 GMT -5
One of these days I'm going to have to get off my arse and set up my film scanner. I have a lot of great shots of Zermatt and the valley leading up to it. I have almost that exact same shot you've got there on your post. You could get it looking out the window of the room where I was staying.
What was incredible about the roofs of the buildings you've got there in that shot is that they were slabs of the local greenschist, some even full of almondine garnet. My friend still gives me shit about the pockets full of rocks I'd end up with from every trail.
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Post by bigdawgs on Jun 17, 2009 19:51:10 GMT -5
We used to drive to Taesch and take the train up the last 10 Kms or so. But once during a bad snowstorm we took the train from Brig/Visp up. You are right, the views going up the valley are amazing.
I tend to prefer Austria to Switzerland. Partially because it is cheaper, but also because the towns in general are prettier and the Austrians are better partiers.
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Post by Life's too short. on Jun 17, 2009 20:11:45 GMT -5
We used to drive to Taesch and take the train up the last 10 Kms or so. But once during a bad snowstorm we took the train from Brig/Visp up. You are right, the views going up the valley are amazing. I tend to prefer Austria to Switzerland. Partially because it is cheaper, but also because the towns in general are prettier and the Austrians are better partiers. Ever been to the St. Augustine biergarten in Salzburg?
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Post by bigdawgs on Jun 17, 2009 20:24:08 GMT -5
No. Have been to the Stiegl Biergarten in Salzburg, which is one of my favorite mid size cities in Europe. I prefer the Munich Biergartens though, especially Augustiner and Hacker Pshorr.
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Post by Life's too short. on Jun 17, 2009 21:17:18 GMT -5
St. Augustine is this complex of very old buildings all connected, each with huge oak beam ceilings, and a brewery where you get a mug and they tap the wooden kegs right there and just let the beer run continuously until the keg is dry, then replace the keg. They are just passing mug after mug after mug to the guy tending the tap and people coming up to the line swish out their mugs in a trough of running water and place them in line to get refilled. It's a pretty cool place. My memories of it are pretty fuzzy though. I do remember one night a group of about ten or so Austrian military guys who were smashed and singing all night long.
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Post by bigdawgs on Jun 17, 2009 21:24:03 GMT -5
Probably Gebirgsjaeger.... Singing and drinking is a Mountain Troop's favorite pasttime.
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