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Post by wareagleray on Jun 12, 2009 1:41:13 GMT -5
Having 8 assists alone doesn't tell the story. Kobe Bryant controls the ball for the Lakers way too much, especially in light of them supposedly running a triangle offense. Look at the number of shots Kobe took tonight. He better have 8 assists.
Kobe was 11-31 tonight. That's not stellar. Tuesday? 11-25. And in fairness, Sunday was 10-22 (but 7 turnovers) and the first game, the blowout, is irrelevant because the team was dominant.
The Lakers will win the series because they are the better team. But Kobe still tries to put the burden on himself, unnecessarily, way too much.
P.S., only Kobe gets away with elbowing the living shit out of Nelson. Granted, it never should have gotten to that point in the first place. But man, Kobe got away with murder on that one.
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Post by BTB07 on Jun 12, 2009 6:35:22 GMT -5
It is not every day that a guy can go for 32 points, 7 boards, 8 assists can get criticized for their play.
It is also not everyday that a team that shot 20 free throws as opposed to their opponents 37 is made out to 'get all the calls'.
The Magic choked the game away in the final seconds last night, and the Lakers took advantage in OT.
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Post by wareagleray on Jun 12, 2009 6:57:03 GMT -5
Needing 31 shots to score 32 points is not stellar. He didn't even shoot 40 percent. It's the way he scored the points.
I didn't say anything about the Lakers getting all the calls and I addressed that the Magic shouldn't have let it go to over time in the first place.
But how dare Kobe get criticism, right?
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Post by tophb21 on Jun 12, 2009 7:22:00 GMT -5
WER,
If you go back and look at some of MJ's games that he would play in the playoffs especially after a tough loss, you would see a similar trend there as well. Not saying Kobe is MJ yadda yadda, but MJ used to get similar criticism.
I will say this about the Lakers, they don't get the ball to Gasol enough, but they're up 3-1 so it doesn't matter so much.
I'm not going to get into the refs being one-sided b/c reffing an NBA game might be the hardest game to officiate in all of sports.
That being said, my biggest pet peeve is the inability to hit FT's. Orlando shot 59% from the line. They shoot 70% in regulation then they win quite easily. If I'm Van Gundy, that pisses me off to no end.
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Post by dpb13 on Jun 12, 2009 8:29:50 GMT -5
WER, the man has had at least 8 assists in 6 straight playoff games. Last guy to do that for the Lakers? Magic. The next highest guy on the team (Ariza) had 2. I know, I know, Kobe is selfish, Kobe is arrogant, blah blah blah. Give me a break.
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Post by dawgggystyle on Jun 12, 2009 9:53:18 GMT -5
what the fuck was Nelson doing giving Fisher all that room at the end of regulation ?
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Post by gatordynasty on Jun 12, 2009 11:07:05 GMT -5
I haven't ever been more pissed about a game in which I wasn't really a fan of either team (though I'm rooting for the Magic).
God they blew that game. Congrats to the Lakers for playing the final minutes perfectly to extend the game. I think the Magic more blew it than the Lakers won it at the end, but they deserved it. Good come back.
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Post by dawgggystyle on Jun 12, 2009 11:08:51 GMT -5
yeah up by 5 with :38 seconds left.... they fucking blew it
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Post by BTB07 on Jun 12, 2009 11:49:20 GMT -5
WER, It is not about not ever criticizing Kobe, but I think he played well enough last night (even while not shooting great) to be 'the guy'. Does he take too many tough shots? Sure. Did he do enough for his team last night to get the win? Sure. The Magic certainly gagged a bit at the end, but the Lakers also took advantage of all those mistakes to get it to OT. Once it got to OT I figured the Lakers would win the game. Toph is right though. The Magic shot a better percentage in all of game 3 than they shot unguarded from the free throw line in game 4. They did have a hell of a lot of chances though.
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Post by eloveku on Jun 12, 2009 12:17:42 GMT -5
P.S., only Kobe gets away with elbowing the living shit out of Nelson. Granted, it never should have gotten to that point in the first place. But man, Kobe got away with murder on that one. This is a big example of why I've steadily drifted farther and farther away from the NBA. Let's do a role reversal... same exact play, only it's Kobe taking the elbow... not only would there have been a call, but that's all we'd be hearing about today. The rules should be applied to everybody. Besides, wasn't this the year the NBA said they wanted to focus on elbows?
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Post by dawgggystyle on Jun 12, 2009 12:26:28 GMT -5
bad missed call on that elbow magic should have won the game outright though, never should have gone to OT
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Post by dpb13 on Jun 12, 2009 12:49:58 GMT -5
P.S., only Kobe gets away with elbowing the living shit out of Nelson. Granted, it never should have gotten to that point in the first place. But man, Kobe got away with murder on that one. This is a big example of why I've steadily drifted farther and farther away from the NBA. Let's do a role reversal... same exact play, only it's Kobe taking the elbow... not only would there have been a call, but that's all we'd be hearing about today. The rules should be applied to everybody. Besides, wasn't this the year the NBA said they wanted to focus on elbows? You mean like the call they made when Howard shoved Gasol to the ground and the foul was called on Fisher? Again, remember, the Lakers went from 1:28 to go in the 3rd to a few seconds to go in OT without shooting a single free throw. Not one. Period. You think there were no obvious fouls commited by the Magic in that time?
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Post by dawgggystyle on Jun 12, 2009 13:14:33 GMT -5
there were shit loads of bad calls we could sit here and talk about bad and missed calls all day and night.. the right team won last night. the magic shot themselves in the foot and pissed it away
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Post by BTB07 on Jun 12, 2009 13:15:34 GMT -5
bad missed call on that elbow magic should have won the game outright though, never should have gone to OT Not really sure it was a bad call. It wasn't like Nelson was there and already had Kobe trapped (and Kobe did it to clear the double team). Kobe was already turning that direction. It is unfortunate that contact was made and that Nelson is 6 inches shorter than Kobe so he caught it in the face. But really, I saw a lot more contact than that in the game that was not called. Maybe that is because I prefer the Lakers...but I didn't think that was an egregious missed call. Probably more like 'playoff basketball'.
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Post by SoCalFan on Jun 12, 2009 13:19:33 GMT -5
I would say that the 18 straight free throws, from the 4th quarter until the OT by the Magic ( that's 18-0), shows the clear bias from the referees toward the Lakers. ;D
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Post by BTB07 on Jun 12, 2009 13:20:51 GMT -5
I would say that the 18 straight free throws, from the 4th quarter until the OT by the Magic ( that's 18-0), shows the clear bias from the referees toward the Lakers. ;D Leave those damn facts out of it. It is obviously because the Lakers weren't driving to the basket (except Kobe did all the fourth quarter and OT). We are talking about perceptions...
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Post by dawgggystyle on Jun 12, 2009 13:26:12 GMT -5
bad missed call on that elbow magic should have won the game outright though, never should have gone to OT Not really sure it was a bad call. It wasn't like Nelson was there and already had Kobe trapped (and Kobe did it to clear the double team). Kobe was already turning that direction. It is unfortunate that contact was made and that Nelson is 6 inches shorter than Kobe so he caught it in the face. But really, I saw a lot more contact than that in the game that was not called. Maybe that is because I prefer the Lakers...but I didn't think that was an egregious missed call. Probably more like 'playoff basketball'. I agree with all that but when the refs look for elbows like that and make that call other times, why wasnt it called then, it had no affect on the game anyway, the magic were done at that point.
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Post by BTB07 on Jun 12, 2009 13:27:28 GMT -5
I am not disputing the fact that refs sometimes make the call, and other times do not. Sometimes it varies from player to player...
Just think they got that one right to leave it alone, since it wasn't malicious.
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Post by dawgggystyle on Jun 12, 2009 13:32:18 GMT -5
it is what it is, Lakers think it was alright, Magic fans didn't. I think the refs have done a pretty good job this series, way better than the Cleveland / Orlando series
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Post by tophb21 on Jun 12, 2009 13:32:45 GMT -5
Refs could call a foul just about every trip down the floor in an NBA game if they wanted, however the problem with NBA officiating is the lack of consistency.
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Post by wareagleray on Jun 12, 2009 15:39:57 GMT -5
Again, you tell me the number of times that Kobe Bryant controls the ball for his team when he's not even the point guard. 31 shots. 32 points.
Note that I have not called Kobe selfish so quit wearing your Laker heart on your sleeve. The guy is the best basketball player on the planet. And he controls the ball way too much for a triangle offense. Period. As much as he controls the ball he'd better have 8 assists a game. I bet in a playoff game you never saw Magic shoot 31 times while Kareem had 10 shots. Gasol's scoring at will and having to beg for the basket while Kobe's shooting over two people. Consistently.
But I'm talking about Kobe after a WIN. If Kobe's Lakers win the title, and all systems seem go on that, he's immortalized. But man is he a polarizing figure. I'll never forget how he chased Shaq out of town thinking he could do it by himself. I wonder does he see the irony that it took the Gasol heist most prevalently to finally get him the ring. He couldn't do it alone. Yet he consistently tries to. Sorry, just my O.
There's a reason that some people have said exchange LeBron James with Kobe Bryant and the Lakers win 78 games.
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Post by wareagleray on Jun 12, 2009 15:49:12 GMT -5
14, 11, 14. Pau Gasol's shot attempts in the past 3 games. Again, throwing out game one because it was a blowout.
24, 23, 16. The points that Pau Gasol has scored in those games.
My point? PAU GASOL NEEDS THE BALL A LOT MORE BECAUSE HE IS IN A BETTER POSITION TO SCORE BASKETS THAN KOBE.
Gasol is handling whoever covers him, be it Lewis or Howard. And the triangle could work to iso Gasol on whomever is checking him. They start paying more attention to Gasol and who benefits? Kobe. Who, if he took, say 20 shots and scored 10-12 of them would be doing his team much more a service than having the whole team stare at him in 1 on whatever matchups.
These games don't have to be this close. The Lakers are a far, far better team.
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Post by wareagleray on Jun 12, 2009 16:31:21 GMT -5
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Post by goirish on Jun 12, 2009 16:35:40 GMT -5
This is a big example of why I've steadily drifted farther and farther away from the NBA. Let's do a role reversal... same exact play, only it's Kobe taking the elbow... not only would there have been a call, but that's all we'd be hearing about today. The rules should be applied to everybody. Besides, wasn't this the year the NBA said they wanted to focus on elbows? You mean like the call they made when Howard shoved Gasol to the ground and the foul was called on Fisher? Again, remember, the Lakers went from 1:28 to go in the 3rd to a few seconds to go in OT without shooting a single free throw. Not one. Period. You think there were no obvious fouls commited by the Magic in that time? What you meant to say was that Fisher was shoving Howard into Gasol who then got pushed over ;D
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Post by eloveku on Jun 12, 2009 16:47:40 GMT -5
You mean like the call they made when Howard shoved Gasol to the ground and the foul was called on Fisher? Again, remember, the Lakers went from 1:28 to go in the 3rd to a few seconds to go in OT without shooting a single free throw. Not one. Period. You think there were no obvious fouls commited by the Magic in that time? I didn't say the refs were biased towards the Lakers... don't read too much into it. You've in fact proved what I'm talking about in your complaint about Howard. If you're a star in the NBA you get calls that don't exist, and you get away with damn near anything you want. But in my example, if you can honestly say that if Kobe took that same elbow to the face, there wouldn't have been a call, you're either lying to me, or lying to yourself. Again, this is rampant in the NBA, and as I said, it's part of the reason I've moved further and further from the sport.
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Post by tophb21 on Jun 12, 2009 16:57:09 GMT -5
But I'm talking about Kobe after a WIN. If Kobe's Lakers win the title, and all systems seem go on that, he's immortalized. But man is he a polarizing figure. I'll never forget how he chased Shaq out of town thinking he could do it by himself. I wonder does he see the irony that it took the Gasol heist most prevalently to finally get him the ring. He couldn't do it alone. Yet he consistently tries to. Sorry, just my O. There's a reason that some people have said exchange LeBron James with Kobe Bryant and the Lakers win 78 games. Anyone who thinks the Lakers win 78 games with Lebron is just crazy. That is straight up hyperbole. Not debating that Kobe is a polarizing figure. What I meant in my earlier post was look at MJ playing in a game following a loss, he often controled the flow of those games. One other thing is that the triangle offense is not set up for a traditional PG to control the flow of the game. It's really constructed to maximize the touches of the best player(s) and put the the ball in their hands as much as possible. Now does Kobe over do it? Absolutely. Should Pau get the ball even more than he does with the Lakers? Absolutely. He's extremely skilled with the ball in his hands whether posting up or facing the basket. I would argue that there isn't a C/PF in the game with his offensive skill set besides Timmay. I guess the point is to nit pick the amount that Kobe touches the ball is just that nitpicking. The rest of the personal stuff about him is a whole other subject of another thread. I do agree with you though that the Lakers have a far better team and could win in a bigger fashion, but some credit must go to the Magic as well (except for when they miss as many FT's as they did last night. )
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Post by dpb13 on Jun 12, 2009 17:28:46 GMT -5
One could also point out that Gasol played somewhat limited minutes in the first half after picking up two quick fouls. At one point Kobe was out there with something like Walton, Mbenga, Powell and Vujacic. Is it any wonder he took a lot of shots?
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Post by tophb21 on Jun 12, 2009 17:31:14 GMT -5
One could also point out that Gasol played somewhat limited minutes in the first half after picking up two quick fouls. At one point Kobe was out there with something like Walton, Mbenga, Powell and Vujacic. Is it any wonder he took a lot of shots? Yeah, the Lakers were just trying to survive the first half with Gasol, Odom, and Bynum all in foul trouble.
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Post by wareagleray on Jun 12, 2009 19:06:45 GMT -5
And you've eliminated one game. The other 2? The rest of his career? I mean, you're a Laker fan. You should know Kobe better than anyone!
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Sho'nuff
Decurion
LSU Hotties!
Posts: 1,037
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Post by Sho'nuff on Jun 13, 2009 1:56:22 GMT -5
What part of Lakers in 5 do you people not understand? ;D
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