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Post by geauxtigerfan on Dec 2, 2023 11:20:00 GMT -5
From Dandy Don's website:
"• In last night’s Pac-12 championship, Michael Penix and the Washington Huskies defeated Bo Nix and the Oregon Ducks, 34-31. Nix finished the night 21-of-34 for 239 passing yards, 69 rushing yards, three TDs and one INT. Penix went 27-of-39 for 319 yards, one TD and one INT.
Both are great players, but after watching this game I can’t imagine any objective, non-biased voter thinking either of them is as deserving of the Heisman Trophy as Jayden Daniels. By the way, Daniels now has a commanding lead in DraftKing’s Heisman odds at -1400, compared to Penix at +1000 and Nix at +1200."
I watched the game last night and I have watched Daniels in the 12 LSU games. Of course I am biased, but Daniels has made the hard throws all year, especially the long throws.
Well one thing we know, it won't be long now.
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Dec 2, 2023 11:21:58 GMT -5
The amazing thing though - Daniel, Nix and Penix Jr. are all transfers. Last year's winner was a transfer. It seems the best QB's these days are portal transfers. New world of college football we live in today.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2023 12:51:51 GMT -5
From Dandy Don's website: "• In last night’s Pac-12 championship, Michael Penix and the Washington Huskies defeated Bo Nix and the Oregon Ducks, 34-31. Nix finished the night 21-of-34 for 239 passing yards, 69 rushing yards, three TDs and one INT. Penix went 27-of-39 for 319 yards, one TD and one INT. Both are great players, but after watching this game I can’t imagine any objective, non-biased voter thinking either of them is as deserving of the Heisman Trophy as Jayden Daniels. By the way, Daniels now has a commanding lead in DraftKing’s Heisman odds at -1400, compared to Penix at +1000 and Nix at +1200." I watched the game last night and I have watched Daniels in the 12 LSU games. Of course I am biased, but Daniels has made the hard throws all year, especially the long throws. Well one thing we know, it won't be long now. Here's the thing about Daniels though- how did he do in big games? He was outplayed by Travis. He was outplayed by Milroe. Hell, Jaxson Dart pretty much matched his numbers. Those are three losses. He was outplayed by Cook, but at least they beat Missouri. So he was outplayed or matched in every one of LSU's big games. Sorry, but Daniels winning would be as big a joke as the Bama/FSU abomination.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2023 12:56:38 GMT -5
By the way, I would think that all of those explaining away the Bama over FSU thing would be pushing Travis for the Heisman Hell, he is so good that he single handedly got FSU to 13-0, and without him the team pretty much doesn't exist.
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Dec 5, 2023 13:09:30 GMT -5
Nice try Daniel.
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Dec 5, 2023 13:20:15 GMT -5
From Dandy Don's website: "• In last night’s Pac-12 championship, Michael Penix and the Washington Huskies defeated Bo Nix and the Oregon Ducks, 34-31. Nix finished the night 21-of-34 for 239 passing yards, 69 rushing yards, three TDs and one INT. Penix went 27-of-39 for 319 yards, one TD and one INT. Both are great players, but after watching this game I can’t imagine any objective, non-biased voter thinking either of them is as deserving of the Heisman Trophy as Jayden Daniels. By the way, Daniels now has a commanding lead in DraftKing’s Heisman odds at -1400, compared to Penix at +1000 and Nix at +1200." I watched the game last night and I have watched Daniels in the 12 LSU games. Of course I am biased, but Daniels has made the hard throws all year, especially the long throws. Well one thing we know, it won't be long now. Here's the thing about Daniels though- how did he do in big games? He was outplayed by Travis. He was outplayed by Milroe. Hell, Jaxson Dart pretty much matched his numbers. Those are three losses. He was outplayed by Cook, but at least they beat Missouri. So he was outplayed or matched in every one of LSU's big games. Sorry, but Daniels winning would be as big a joke as the Bama/FSU abomination. How about each team's defense? FSU 14th Bama 18th Ole Miss 57th LSU 101th How did other QB's do against each of those teams? As I said nice try Daniel.
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Dec 5, 2023 13:22:52 GMT -5
By the way, I would think that all of those explaining away the Bama over FSU thing would be pushing Travis for the Heisman Hell, he is so good that he single handedly got FSU to 13-0, and without him the team pretty much doesn't exist. Didn't Travis get hurt in the 11th game? How could he single handedly got FSU to 13-0. Just asking for a friend.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2023 13:24:23 GMT -5
By the way, I would think that all of those explaining away the Bama over FSU thing would be pushing Travis for the Heisman Hell, he is so good that he single handedly got FSU to 13-0, and without him the team pretty much doesn't exist. Didn't Travis get hurt in the 11th game? How could he single handedly got FSU to 13-0. Just asking for a friend. So, you're saying they can win without him? Thank you for proving many people's points.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2023 13:25:29 GMT -5
Here's the thing about Daniels though- how did he do in big games? He was outplayed by Travis. He was outplayed by Milroe. Hell, Jaxson Dart pretty much matched his numbers. Those are three losses. He was outplayed by Cook, but at least they beat Missouri. So he was outplayed or matched in every one of LSU's big games. Sorry, but Daniels winning would be as big a joke as the Bama/FSU abomination. How about each team's defense? FSU 14th Bama 18th Ole Miss 57th LSU 101th How did other QB's do against each of those teams? As I said nice try Daniel. So? To win the Heisman you have to show big in big games. He didn't. Sorry. Also, not sure why you feel the need for snark, but you do you.
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Dec 5, 2023 13:26:13 GMT -5
IMO, Penix, Jr. and Nix will steal votes from one another and Daniels wins the Heisman. How did Marvin Harrison, Jr even get invited? LSU has two WR's with as good or better stats. Again just asking for a friend.
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Dec 5, 2023 13:28:35 GMT -5
How about each team's defense? FSU 14th Bama 18th Ole Miss 57th LSU 101th How did other QB's do against each of those teams? As I said nice try Daniel. So? To win the Heisman you have to show big in big games. He didn't. Sorry. Also, not sure why you feel the need for snark, but you do you. He had pretty good stats in those games. As for the snark, its seems to me you might be trolling. By the way - are you and the Mrs. going to Russia?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2023 13:29:05 GMT -5
IMO, Penix, Jr. and Nix will steal votes from one another and Daniels wins the Heisman. How did Marvin Harrison, Jr even get invited? LSU has two WR's with as good or better stats. Again just asking for a friend. Why doesn't your friend ask for themselves? As for Harrison, the Heisman has never been about straight stats. He flat out dominated games for a team that an OK qb, and an OK running game.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2023 13:32:03 GMT -5
So? To win the Heisman you have to show big in big games. He didn't. Sorry. Also, not sure why you feel the need for snark, but you do you. He had pretty good stats in those games. As for the snark, its seems to me you might be trolling. By the way - are you and the Mrs. going to Russia? I'm not trolling at all. I don't think he should win. He had "pretty good stats" in those games. Not great, and was outplayed by multiple QBs in his teams biggest games. Take a step back from the fact that he is an LSU guy, and be honest. He has no big Heisman moment, again, he was outplayed in his teams biggest games. Why should he win. And, waiting on visas.
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Dec 5, 2023 14:09:00 GMT -5
He had pretty good stats in those games. As for the snark, its seems to me you might be trolling. By the way - are you and the Mrs. going to Russia? I'm not trolling at all. I don't think he should win. He had "pretty good stats" in those games. Not great, and was outplayed by multiple QBs in his teams biggest games. Take a step back from the fact that he is an LSU guy, and be honest. He has no big Heisman moment, again, he was outplayed in his teams biggest games. Why should he win. And, waiting on visas. What are the criteria for the Heisman? Heisman Trophy 2023: Hopefuls, Favorites, Odds, History ... The Heisman Trophy is annually awarded to the most outstanding college football player in the United States whose performance epitomizes great ability combined with diligence, perseverance, and hard work. LSU, without Daniels, could have 3 or four more losses. Hix was his closest competitor until the second loss to Washington. Penix, Jr. doesn't have the stats that Daniels has. You state he was outplayed in LSU's three losses - I disagree. His stats was as good or better than each of the QB's in those games. LSU's defense lost those three games. He kept LSU in those three games into the 4th quarter. And in the Bama game - he was injured in the 3rd quarter.
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Dec 5, 2023 14:13:31 GMT -5
And there has been other Heisman winners on teams with 3 losses - so it has happened before. But LSU's two Heisman winners - Cannon in 1959 was on a two loss team and Burrow of course was on a 15-0 team. Cannon had finished 2nd in 1958 on an undefeated team.
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Post by athens on Dec 5, 2023 14:24:51 GMT -5
I have to agree with GTF's point. If Daniels played every game against LSU's defense, his numbers would be significantly higher than they are.
In the 3 losses, Daniels was 64/97 66% 7 td 2 int / 41 rush for 326 yd 7.9 ypr 2TD
Not like he was playing badly. And remember he missed most of the 4th against Bama, or they could have won.
The only game I would say he got outplayed was against FSU
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Dec 5, 2023 14:48:40 GMT -5
I have to agree with GTF's point. If Daniels played every game against LSU's defense, his numbers would be significantly higher than they are. In the 3 losses, Daniels was 64/97 66% 7 td 2 int / 41 rush for 326 yd 7.9 ypr 2TD Not like he was playing badly. And remember he missed most of the 4th against Bama, or they could have won. The only game I would say he got outplayed was against FSU And if LSU's defense had made a couple of stops. I would have liked LSU's chances of winning. Especially Ole Miss - they scored on their last possession to defeat us 55 to 49.
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Post by NCBulldawg on Dec 5, 2023 15:01:54 GMT -5
Hey notdpb...quick question. If a QB is playing a team without a Defense, and ranked #105 (against the Pass), how would you predict an opposing team's QB to do statistically?
A) Average B) Below Average C) Above average
If you do answer the above, then I pose this question...
So, "hypothetical" of course, if a Heisman contending QB were to play teams with Passing Defenses ranked #8/#23/#60, and the opposing team's QB were playing the #105 ranked Passing Defense, who would you bet would end up with better Passing stats, the QBs who play on teams with #8/#23/#60 Passing D, or the QB playing for the team ranked #105?
I mean, these are relating the stats of the game to where said teams rank amongst their peers.
And, by the way, for sake of argument, let's just apply a little association with one of the three QBs above, one plays for currently ranked #4 team and is a Heisman candidate but not going to NY, while the other two has one playing for the currently ranked #5 team, and one playing for the currently ranked #11 team.
I don't know about you, but odds are stats might lean toward QBs facing a team incapable of defending the pass, especially when two of the three could be argued for contenders in the Heisman voting.
Just curious who you would argue should have the better stats in the above "hypothetical", and why.
And, no, I was not asked, just looked into such and saw some interesting stats and associations and though I would offer it up here.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 1:42:37 GMT -5
I'm not trolling at all. I don't think he should win. He had "pretty good stats" in those games. Not great, and was outplayed by multiple QBs in his teams biggest games. Take a step back from the fact that he is an LSU guy, and be honest. He has no big Heisman moment, again, he was outplayed in his teams biggest games. Why should he win. And, waiting on visas. What are the criteria for the Heisman? Heisman Trophy 2023: Hopefuls, Favorites, Odds, History ... The Heisman Trophy is annually awarded to the most outstanding college football player in the United States whose performance epitomizes great ability combined with diligence, perseverance, and hard work. LSU, without Daniels, could have 3 or four more losses. Hix was his closest competitor until the second loss to Washington. Penix, Jr. doesn't have the stats that Daniels has. You state he was outplayed in LSU's three losses - I disagree. His stats was as good or better than each of the QB's in those games. LSU's defense lost those three games. He kept LSU in those three games into the 4th quarter. And in the Bama game - he was injured in the 3rd quarter. FSUDaniels: 22-37 346/1 TD/1 INT 15 carries/64 yards Travis: 23-31 342/4TDs/1 INT 7 carries/38 yards/1 TD Travis accounted for 5 TDs in this game. Daniels for 1. Clear advantage for Travis. Ole MissDaniels: 27-36 414/4 TDs 15 carries/99 yards/1 TD Dart: 26-39/389/4 TDs 7 carries/50 yards/1 TD At best a push, except that Dart got the ball back with 2:18 to play and down by 2 and marched his team down field for the game winning TD. Advantage Dart. BamaDaniels: 15-24 219/2TDs/1 INT 11 carries/163 yards/1 TD Milroe: 15-23 219/ 20 carries/155 yards/4 TDs These numbers are virtually identical, I would give Milroe a slight advantage because 4 TDs > 3 TDs. Oh, and his team won. But again, the Heisman has never been about pure stats. If it were, there are a whole bunch of guys who have some serious complaints. The criteria for the Heisman are as subjective as the BS criteria for the playoffs, but the voting members have always shown an affinity for guys who show in the big games, and have that "Heisman moment" that they can point to. IF (and that is a huge IF) they are being consistent then I am sorry, but Daniels doesn't have it. Great player, no doubt, but based on previous votes, he should not win the Heisman this year, and if he does, it will be for the same reason that Bama made the playoffs.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 1:44:55 GMT -5
I have to agree with GTF's point. If Daniels played every game against LSU's defense, his numbers would be significantly higher than they are. In the 3 losses, Daniels was 64/97 66% 7 td 2 int / 41 rush for 326 yd 7.9 ypr 2TD Not like he was playing badly. And remember he missed most of the 4th against Bama, or they could have won. The only game I would say he got outplayed was against FSU And if LSU's defense had made a couple of stops. I would have liked LSU's chances of winning. Especially Ole Miss - they scored on their last possession to defeat us 55 to 49. And if Chip hadn't completely mishandled the QB situation this season, UCLA would be at worst looking at a NY6 bowl game. So effing what? We aren't dealing with ifs. Or at least, we shouldn't be. We should be dealing with what actually happened on the field.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 1:46:07 GMT -5
I have to agree with GTF's point. If Daniels played every game against LSU's defense, his numbers would be significantly higher than they are. In the 3 losses, Daniels was 64/97 66% 7 td 2 int / 41 rush for 326 yd 7.9 ypr 2TD Not like he was playing badly. And remember he missed most of the 4th against Bama, or they could have won. The only game I would say he got outplayed was against FSU And if Chip hadn't completely mishandled the QB situation this season, UCLA would be at worst looking at a NY6 bowl game. So effing what? We aren't dealing with ifs. Or at least, we shouldn't be. We should be dealing with what actually happened on the field.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 1:49:47 GMT -5
Hey notdpb...quick question. If a QB is playing a team without a Defense, and ranked #105 (against the Pass), how would you predict an opposing team's QB to do statistically? A) Average B) Below Average C) Above average If you do answer the above, then I pose this question... So, "hypothetical" of course, if a Heisman contending QB were to play teams with Passing Defenses ranked #8/#23/#60, and the opposing team's QB were playing the #105 ranked Passing Defense, who would you bet would end up with better Passing stats, the QBs who play on teams with #8/#23/#60 Passing D, or the QB playing for the team ranked #105? I mean, these are relating the stats of the game to where said teams rank amongst their peers. And, by the way, for sake of argument, let's just apply a little association with one of the three QBs above, one plays for currently ranked #4 team and is a Heisman candidate but not going to NY, while the other two has one playing for the currently ranked #5 team, and one playing for the currently ranked #11 team. I don't know about you, but odds are stats might lean toward QBs facing a team incapable of defending the pass, especially when two of the three could be argued for contenders in the Heisman voting. Just curious who you would argue should have the better stats in the above "hypothetical", and why. And, no, I was not asked, just looked into such and saw some interesting stats and associations and though I would offer it up here. Again, great, but the Heisman is traditionally not just about stats. Traditionally the vote has gone to someone who shows in big games, and has that Heisman moment. Be honest, how does Daniels stack up with those criteria? What was his big game moment? That he lost?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 1:54:36 GMT -5
In 2021, Bailey Zappe threw for 1,100 more yards than Bryce Young. He had 15 more TDs, and a higher QB rating. Why wasn't he in NY holding a trophy?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 1:57:46 GMT -5
In 2020 7 guys had better passing stats than Trevor Lawrence, yet only 2 of them were among the finalists. What about the other 5?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 1:59:45 GMT -5
In 2019, 22 different guys had better stats than Justin Fields, and yet there he was in NYC.
I can do this all day.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 2:13:11 GMT -5
Penix, Jr. doesn't have the stats that Daniels has. I guess that depends on which stat you are looking at. Penix is #1 in the nation in passing yards per game (Daniels is 3rd), and in total passing yards (again, Daniels is 3rd). Yes, Penix got one more game. Too bad. But yes, Daniels has a much better QB rating, and has more TDs.
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Post by NCBulldawg on Dec 6, 2023 2:42:12 GMT -5
Hey notdpb...quick question. If a QB is playing a team without a Defense, and ranked #105 (against the Pass), how would you predict an opposing team's QB to do statistically? A) Average B) Below Average C) Above average If you do answer the above, then I pose this question... So, "hypothetical" of course, if a Heisman contending QB were to play teams with Passing Defenses ranked #8/#23/#60, and the opposing team's QB were playing the #105 ranked Passing Defense, who would you bet would end up with better Passing stats, the QBs who play on teams with #8/#23/#60 Passing D, or the QB playing for the team ranked #105? I mean, these are relating the stats of the game to where said teams rank amongst their peers. And, by the way, for sake of argument, let's just apply a little association with one of the three QBs above, one plays for currently ranked #4 team and is a Heisman candidate but not going to NY, while the other two has one playing for the currently ranked #5 team, and one playing for the currently ranked #11 team. I don't know about you, but odds are stats might lean toward QBs facing a team incapable of defending the pass, especially when two of the three could be argued for contenders in the Heisman voting. Just curious who you would argue should have the better stats in the above "hypothetical", and why. And, no, I was not asked, just looked into such and saw some interesting stats and associations and though I would offer it up here. Again, great, but the Heisman is traditionally not just about stats. Traditionally the vote has gone to someone who shows in big games, and has that Heisman moment. Be honest, how does Daniels stack up with those criteria? What was his big game moment? That he lost? The point was Daniels faced much stronger Passing Defenses, hell... Defenses, than the opposing QB of each team facing LSU's, and you say these are "pushes" when the stats are close? So, I guess you want to equate similar stats when three QBs faced the 105th worst Passing Defense(104th Total Defense) and accrued their stats, when Daniels faced the 8th/23rd/60th ranked Passing Defenses and 14th/18th and 59th Total Defense and getting similar results? I would think the, as you call it, "tie", especially in these situations, should go to the runner who faced the higher ranked Defenses to get his numbers, but that is just me. And, his gaining these stats against said Defenses garners a little more respect for the accomplishments. Fine, you don't like Daniels for the Heisman. You cite history and Heisman "moments". Tebow lost 3 gams when he won his. (The team ended up losing four.) Not so sure any Heisman moments overcame those three losses. More recently, Heisman winners with three losses were last in 2011 and 2016. Not sure Heisman "moments" were all over those years for those winners either, but maybe, I don't know. me Stick with your arguments, as I will with mine. I am not going to be upset if Jayden Daniels wins the Heisman and then try to say why he shouldn't as he put that team on his back, played through injuries/hurt and showed toughness all over the field during those games, both wins and losses, and lead his team. Yeah, stats aren't the only thing, but if they were, he is right there on top/toward the top with anyone, and better than all in a "handful'ish" when compared to Heisman hopefuls invited, and those that just missed. Guess we'll agree to disagree. Cheers, notdpb! (Now, I need to get back to sleep. When I awoke earlier, I couldn't go back to sleep and checked in. Saw this, figured I would respond, but now it is time to try again. Damn this overactive mind of mine.)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 8:59:00 GMT -5
By the way, I would think that all of those explaining away the Bama over FSU thing would be pushing Travis for the Heisman Hell, he is so good that he single handedly got FSU to 13-0, and without him the team pretty much doesn't exist. Didn't Travis get hurt in the 11th game? How could he single handedly got FSU to 13-0. Just asking for a friend. I remain confused about this point, by the way. Which is it? a) FSU doesn't need Travis to win or b) FSU is so bad without Travis that Bama should jump them and get in the playoff. Pick one, because you can't have it both ways depending on which SEC team you happen to be arguing for at the moment.
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Post by tophb21 on Dec 6, 2023 9:13:11 GMT -5
And there has been other Heisman winners on teams with 3 losses - so it has happened before. But LSU's two Heisman winners - Cannon in 1959 was on a two loss team and Burrow of course was on a 15-0 team. Cannon had finished 2nd in 1958 on an undefeated team. Actually against Ole Miss you could argue his fumble was the key difference in a one score game and Dart played a flawless game. Oh and Ole Miss D is pretty sorry as well.
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Post by geauxtigerfan on Dec 6, 2023 11:52:42 GMT -5
And there has been other Heisman winners on teams with 3 losses - so it has happened before. But LSU's two Heisman winners - Cannon in 1959 was on a two loss team and Burrow of course was on a 15-0 team. Cannon had finished 2nd in 1958 on an undefeated team. Actually against Ole Miss you could argue his fumble was the key difference in a one score game and Dart played a flawless game. Oh and Ole Miss D is pretty sorry as well. Ole Miss 57th defense LSU 108th defense
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